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Pedants' corner

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The decline of standards in the pluperfect conditional

28 replies

Tech · 28/01/2008 11:32

If I would have seen it, I would have told you.
NO NO NO NO NO
If I HAD seen it, I would have told you.

I blame the influence of Spanish on American English (the whole hubiera / habria confusion / melding).

OP posts:
Eliza2 · 30/01/2008 08:40

AMericans tend to refer to it as past perfect. I was taught that it was pluperfect, ie, even more perfect than the perfect tense because it happened ever further back in time.

BecauseImWorthIt · 30/01/2008 09:08

I grew up in the era of no grammar teaching - we were taught to learn it 'instinctively' through reading, etc. So I know that Tech's correction is appropriate.

However, despite studying French, German, Latin and (a tiny bit of) Spanish over the years, and then doing a Linguistics and Literature degree, I still couldn't tell you what the pluperfect is/should/would/could be!

Oh, and Tech, haven't you got the For Sale board to sort out?! Or are you too frightened to go back into your shed?

JaneHH · 30/01/2008 14:17

Isn't the pluperfect just "I had done" as opposed to "I have done" or "I did"? There's no conditional involved in it at all... Perhaps the confusion in America comes from the fact that "I have done" and "I did" have been merged there into one form ("I did") so anything with an auxiliary in it gets a bit too conditional for people's liking...? (V scientific explanation, I'm sure you'll agree )

I live in Holland and the Dutch use this construction all the time if they speak English (If I would have done x/y/z, then I would have...) I think there must be some feeling among non-native speakers that "If I had..." isn't conditional "enough".

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