Who is correct? The tale of the idiot and the newspaper

[VeryImportantTitle]

I complained to a newspaper outlet about a newsletter I received yesterday which had some errors in my opinion. I wrote to customer services as I was in a cantankerous humour. The newsletter is usually sent out by a particular reporter and I enjoy his style but it was a new reporter yesterday who was filling in for him. no I do not have anything better to be doing

One of the sentences I complained about was this one: A voice from the world of football has thrown his weight behind the Labour leader and accused prime minister Liz Truss of “taking the Mickey” by cutting taxes for the rich.

My complaint was about capitalisation. In my mind, prime minister should have been capitalised and Mickey should not have been. The same newsletter referred to mini-Budget.

I received a very nice reply to my mini-Rant.

To that particular part of the complaint, this was their response: "I agree with you, of course, regarding mickey, but our style is Budget (to distinguish it from the noun or the verb budget, I suppose), and it is therefore also mini-Budget. We also do not capitalise job titles, so we go for prime minister over Prime Minister."

Not to be out-done, I thanked them for their response as I hadn't been expecting one but disagreeing again lol. Shovel and hole comes to mind.

In any case, the person who replied did not have any details included apart from their name. Out of curiosity, I have just googled the name and he is none other than the Managing Editor of this publication. Now I'm thinking VeryImportantTitle - you're a fucking idiot! 😝

All news/media organisations will have a house style, even organisations that only have internal Comms not external will still have house style guides 😊

I think it’s the difference between saying “went to visit his Uncle Bob”, and “was visiting his uncle Bob Smith.” In the latter, uncle doesn’t need to be capitalised.

It would be better written as “accused the prime minister Liz Truss” but it seems like the writer is using a concise writing style to fit with it being a newsletter, hence no “the”.

Maybe I’m wrong!

If it said “…accused the Prime Minister of ‘taking the mickey’” without her name then it should be capitalised. But not the way it is, with her name right after. It’s not acting as the proper noun in this context, because her name is the proper noun.

Oh, I think it's exactly the opposite! 'Accused the prime minister of...' is just fine if not capitalising job titles is house style; it's the same as 'accused the minister' or 'accused the vicar' or 'accused the plumber.'

But in this case, it's been used grammatically as a title, not a job title, and so the capitalisation rules for titles should apply. For example, the Guardian is remarkably consistent on not capitalising job titles - eg the president of the United States, the archbishop of York, but will refer to President Biden - because it's doing the work of an honorific title analogous to Dr, Mr, Sir or Baroness.

Many style guides advise against using job titles as titles for this reason - for example they'll specify that you should always write 'Liz Truss, the prime minister, said' rather than 'Prime Minister Liz Truss said.'

I suspect that's it. 'The' would mean it shouldn't be capitalised, but in modern times, brevity is everything so I suppose some rules are no longer applicable as the 'The' is assumed to be there.

But both should take a comma, I think?

Visiting his uncle, Bob Smith.
The prime minister, Liz Truss.

A lot of this is because it's a relatively recent affectation for the UK to use job titles as honorific titles at all; not so long ago people saying 'Prime Minister Truss' would have been unthinkable but it's creeping in more and more. And it is linked to a certain kind of journalistic style which certainly has a greater immediacy even if a slightly looser relationship with conventional grammar - 'Liverpool striker Bob Smith today announced his retirement' or 'Tunbridge Wells bicycle thief Archie Duke today fell off his scooter.'

I think I've just talked myself round to the idea that this may be acceptable house style from a tabloidy perspective, given the above examples, but it's not what might be described as grammatical.

I'm totally with you on your style. In my response (while I was 5 foot under and still digging) I compared it to the queen of England vs the Queen of England. Some countries don't believe that it's a title so don't capitalise 'queen'.

He seemed like a very nice man who indulged an idiot.

It's not a tabloid. It's a mainstream newspaper.

Yes - but tabloid style has been creeping into the broadsheets for years, not least because tabloids are where the readership is and they want to draw people in.

(So if the paper is allowing 'United goalkeeper David de Gea' it's also logical for them to allow 'British prime minister Liz Truss' even though grammatically it's a bit awful.

Come on OP, which paper?'

I'm send you a pm as I certainly don't want the tabloids picking up on this one haha

Can you imagine the headlines in the tabloids?

IDIOT QUESTIONS GRAMMAR OF REPORTER 😆

I could do a Daily Mail sad face though.....

Isn't Mickey rhyming slang? As a name it should be capitalised

It's from "taking the micturation" - ie, taking the piss.

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity! That's one of the newsletters I don't get....

There is some dispute as to the origin. One suggestion is that it's rhyming slang for taking the Mickey Bliss (piss). I have no idea who Mickey Bliss was though. If he was a person then Mickey should be capitalised I suppose.

I quite like it as a newspaper and this newsletter is a sort of brief summary that comes through early in the morning. It gives you brief headlines with links and tells you who from parliament is going to be on air and at what time etc. The reporter who usually does it has a sort of witty flair.

I've sent you a pm as to which newsletter it is and who the usual guy is.

I don't like change!!! Lol

I'm quite impressed though that my insignificant mini-Rant found its way to the Managing Editor however. 😁

I think I'll remember the cringe on my death-bed! Hah!

I really think we need to see this interaction in its (or its’ or it’s: apostrophes are evil) full pedantic glory 🤷‍♀️

Oh you don't as what I thought were mistakes were not actually mistakes!

I'm pretty sure the editor was tittering to himself.

It wasn't just capitalisation I complained about!

As any fule kno;
”The Prime Minister said xyz”
OR
“The prime minister Liz Truss said xyz”

C-

I always assumed it was short for micturition too, but I just found this! I'm sure the phrase predates when this chap came to prominence, but he must wonder why there are so many stifled chuckles every time he's introduced to a Cockney

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bliss

I'm quite impressed though that my insignificant mini-Rant found its way to the Managing Editor however.

Um... shouldn't that be (per his own style guide) 'the managing editor'?

I'm questioning every word I've written now. I wish I hadn't googled him! It was nice of him to reply!

I presumed that I was talking to customer services! 😆

I'm way, way too invested in this one insignificant part, but maybe mickey does indeed refer to micturition, and the 'bliss' is actually the feeling of having had the opportunity to do so, rather than somebody's surname?!