The disappearing 'an'

[wtaf37]

Since when has 'an' become replaced by 'a' before words begining with a vowel? Hearing for example, 'a apple' or 'a orphan'...
Driving me mad!

@campion

It's probably come from the same place that 'the' before a vowel has become 'thu' instead of 'thi/thee'. 'Thu east' 'thu end' etc etc.

You'll be told that language evolves OP and you must embrace it. Even when it sounds like it's coming from a 3 year old.

Once you notice this it drives you mad. I’m pretty sure ‘thuh’ is the mandatory pronunciation in broadcasting, because it’s quite rare to hear a TV or radio presenter say anything other than that now. I noticed it during the referendum. I would say thee EU, while broadcasters say thuh EU.

[quote Pbbananabagel]@Elodeastar words with a silent h are one of those pesky special cases in English grammar where the usual rule does not apply.[/quote]
Hotel doesn't have a silent H though?

No, h doesn't usually have a vowel sound in English, but hotel comes from French, doesn’t it? In which case, it was probably pronounced ‘otel’ when it first began being used by the English.

I used to work in a travel agency and had a rather pompous boss who insisted we should all say ‘an otel’ instead of ‘a hotel’ when speaking to clients. I’m not saying he was wrong, but it just made me feel a bit self-conscious because English has loads of French words and I don’t pronounce any other French words with a French accent (unless I’m actually attempting to speak French, which is a different matter!)

@Aderyn21

I want to know where 'to be' has disappeared to! See adverts for people selling goods and using words such as 'needs gone'.

This!! Also, when speaking of an inanimate object - “It wants cleaning.” No, the oven may need to be cleaned, but it doesn’t want it - it has no feelings or desires!!

@Elodeastar it doesn’t anymore no, that word specifically has evolved as I said before.

would you really say ‘a HON-est man’ or ‘a HOW-er’?

An honest man is correct. Why do you think I would say 'a honest man' ?

I can't even work out what the other one is supposed to mean.

Both irrelevant because 'a hotel' is correct.

It's a soft H not a dropped H

@waterlego

No, h doesn't usually have a vowel sound in English, but hotel comes from French, doesn’t it? In which case, it was probably pronounced ‘otel’ when it first began being used by the English.

I used to work in a travel agency and had a rather pompous boss who insisted we should all say ‘an otel’ instead of ‘a hotel’ when speaking to clients. I’m not saying he was wrong, but it just made me feel a bit self-conscious because English has loads of French words and I don’t pronounce any other French words with a French accent (unless I’m actually attempting to speak French, which is a different matter!)

I agree that saying it with a French accent isn't really correct when speaking in English, to other English speaking people. Our word is Hotel, with an H, derived from but not the same as the French word!

[quote Pbbananabagel]@Elodeastar it doesn’t anymore no, that word specifically has evolved as I said before.[/quote]
I don't really understand your point about the silent H then, yes it applies to words like 'hour', but the comment here were specifically about the word 'hotel'. Anyway.......

If pronounced properly H is not a vowel - people saying 'otel' are actually just not pronouncing the H at all, and effectively making a new word.

I’d say it’s the other way round. It was pronounced ‘otel’ when we first borrowed it from the French and now we’ve created a new, Anglicised version where the ‘h’ is sounded.

@Andtheyalllookjustthesame

It's a soft H not a dropped H

It's not even a soft H where I live, but then I a Scottish.

@waterlego

If pronounced properly H is not a vowel - people saying 'otel' are actually just not pronouncing the H at all, and effectively making a new word.

I’d say it’s the other way round. It was pronounced ‘otel’ when we first borrowed it from the French and now we’ve created a new, Anglicised version where the ‘h’ is sounded.

The 'new' version has been the accepted English language version for a long time though. Those pronouncing it 'otel' either have a dialect or are trying to sound clever.

Well you may drop your h's in Scotland but at least you say your R's

Hotel did used to have a silent h. It’s a French word and so was pronounced more similarly to how it would be in French. Same as how you sometimes hear the last syllable of restaurant being pronounced in a way that sounds more French in old TV programmes and films.

Not sure when this died out, but I’m early 40s and applying the it’s-a-French-word rules have always felt archaic to me.

And some proper vowel sounds!

When in doubt I check The New Fowler's Modern English Usage

"Opinion is divided over the form to use before h-words in which the first syllable is unstressed: the thoroughly modern thing to do is to use a (never an) together with an aspirated h ... but not to demur if others use an with minimal or nil aspiration given to the following h..."

"An hotel (with no aspiration in the second word) is now old-fashioned ... but by no means extinct ..."

Although An + h is still just about accepted in these cases, the force seems to be in favour of a + h.

L'historien is the historian in french so the same rule which is why it's an not a

@Andtheyalllookjustthesame

L'historien is the historian in french so the same rule which is why it's an not a

Except we aren't speaking French.

Yes but the reason that it is 'an historian' and 'an hotel' in written English is because they are french words we adopted and haven't officially changed the a to an an

‘A hotel’ is general now but it’s fairly recent. When I was young it was ‘an hotel’ and was something of a class marker. So called U-speakers always dropped the H. The presence or absence of aitches has always generated much sneery comedy. And it’s always ‘an historian’ for me, a word I use often having been married to one.

"An" seems to be being replaced with "and"
Not sure if it's a slip of the keyboard or deliberate?

@wtaf37

Since when has 'an' become replaced by 'a' before words begining with a vowel? Hearing for example, 'a apple' or 'a orphan'... Driving me mad!

I have been noticing this too, OP. And the shift to "thu" rather than "thee".

@elelel

would you really say ‘a HON-est man’ or ‘a HOW-er’?

An honest man is correct. Why do you think I would say 'a honest man' ?

I can't even work out what the other one is supposed to mean.

Both irrelevant because 'a hotel' is correct.

In these two words the 'h' is silent, so 'an' is appropriate as the silent letter is followed by a vowel. For 'hotel' the 'h' is pronounced in English, and so 'a' is appropriate. 'Hotel' is indeed evolved from a French word where there isn't a hard 'h' sound, but 'Hotel' is much easier for most English speakers to say, hence the evolution. Good luck to anyone learning English, we don't make it easy ha ha! HTH

@Bideshi

‘A hotel’ is general now but it’s fairly recent. When I was young it was ‘an hotel’ and was something of a class marker. So called U-speakers always dropped the H. The presence or absence of aitches has always generated much sneery comedy. And it’s always ‘an historian’ for me, a word I use often having been married to one.

When I was younger, it was those trying to sound 'posh' who said 'an hotel', it was quite funny. All of the rest of us managed fine with 'a hotel', and we were pretty well educated.

@Elodeastar

I agree with you. I have said all along it's A hotel.