official letter from dd's school telling me they are going to lower standards:and they are proud of this!

[hk78]

thank god there's a place to get this crap off my chest!

i've had a letter from school, telling me all about the 'new marking policy' (i wasn't aware of the old one )

basically, the main theme of the new policy is that "not all spellings are corrected. We feel that it is demoralising to a child if there work is covered in red pen - I can remember that feeling well from my own school days!"

1. they are proudly sending a letter to say they are going to let things get even more slack

1. 'there work is covered in red pen' ????

i don't think there's any point in even complaining - no-one is bothered any more are they?!?!?

Absolutely what chopchop said. Thanks for the eye-opening mb!

I do see the point about the possible confusing message of "if it's not marked wrong it must be right" - but surely that's what that letter is there to say? So that you can explain to your child that marking will show the most important things that need to be worked on. I should also think that teachers will differentiate between children (bit like Anna & her age-appropriate filter - let's call it "ability-appropriate"), so that high-achievers like KM's son might well have more rigorous marking applied. Which is fair, I think - those who can do more have more expected of them.

I have dd's parents' evening tonight - I must ask about this.

Dyslexia wasn't recognised when I was in primary school. It was just begining to be recognised when I was doing my 'O' levels (yes I am that old ).

Given that I was still in the top set, coming top, and eventually got two A grades in English literature and Language (and this was in the days before A*s) my english teacher decided not to bother to get me checked. She was quite convinced that I did have dyslexia, but by that time the die was already cast. The damage, caused by being demotivated and put down by constant (for me meaningless) corrections in primary school had already been done.

Flame, I work with two wonderful Art teachers who both have dyslexia.....is there a correlation do you think? If so, it passed me by....my drawing is worse than my spelling!

Had a conversation with my sister about this this morning. She and I both agreed that as children we would have been mortified had a teacher not corrected our spelling - we would have both felt horribly patronised. And she told me that her elder son, who a year ago moved schools from one that did not correct spelling much to one that does correct spelling systematically, is also much happier and crucially, secure, in the system that marks and corrects more rigorously. My nephew had a difficult time at two previous schools, but is absolutely delighted with the present one.

The issues around (de)motivation are more complex than simply not marking too harshly

We have had a (well written) document from DS's school explaining that in KS1 part of the emergent writing policy is to correct key words or tricky words (I forget ) only, as other words are the children using the phonic knowledge they have to 'have a go' and it is important that they gain confidence. And that spelling, generally, will be dealt with in the next stage.

It suits me: I would have been heartbroken to see DS's wind-flag, with hs wind poem, with red pen all over it:

The wind is like a fite agents tigers and liyens,
The wind is like an eegal gliding throo the ski,
The wind is like a krow skworking.

Small children cannot possible be expected to spell every woprd correctly from the off...I agree that at an older age spelling correction and the 'patronising' issue is valid - but not at 6. surely?

I agree Blu - your ds' poem is lovely!

Something I do with my piano pupils is to get them to have a go at sight reading a piece, as a performance - this is really important for grade exams actually, as you get more marks for a 'through' reading, rather than going back and correcting notes you've got wrong, as that disturbs the flow and rhythm of the music.

I also get them to just 'play' - even my ds1 and dd who are 6 and 4 (dd isn't learning yet) - and not to worry too much about playing a tune, but just to experiment with sound etc. I hope this will enable them to be free at the piano, and not bound by the written music.

There's more to life than spelling, and more to literacy than spelling. Yes it's important, but it's also important for a child to feel nurtured not belittled and corrected all the time.

Anna - I'm interested - do you really think your nephew is happier because they correct spellings? Isn't it possible that the school is better in other ways as well. I'm not saying you're not right, I don't know your nephew or the school, but perhaps it is an altogether different sort of environment.

Oh god! This is one of the things that pushed me over the edge with teaching. We had a number of meetings to discuss marking codes and particularly which colour pen we were going to use!

I can't help thinking that the ability to string a sentence together and produce good and interesting prose and most importantly to communicate is so so much more important than the precise details of how you do that. And, lets face it, teaching how to spell correctly isn't that hard - you can do it with lists and tests (and most schools do that anyway). Teaching a child how to love language and produce something like Blu Junior's lovely poem is harder and much much more important.

I agree with Slouchy about 'good writing'.
I run a theatre, and we had a play for GCSE students and a workshop on critical skills. They each wrote a review, and one girl wrote an exceptionally perceptive review showing how far she had appreciated the poetry, language, structure and use of technical theatre-writing devices in the play.

She wrote of a particular scene
" There was a silence. It was an angerous silence...."

And her teacher had crossed out 'angerous' and written 'angry' and I was screeching inside. 'Angerous' exactly described the silence, and if Hardy could use 'Madding' because it described the action, this girl could surely be allowed to extend language to enhance meaning? I felt her talent was being quashed flat. I know techers have to instill the 'right' thing - but is that always the best thing?

MB - There is a correlation - something to do with dyslexics having more spacial awareness and heading towards artsy things more. They test all new students for dyslexia as standard.

I agree with most of the posters here, marking a young child's work should be done in a way that does not demoralise them.

What I would like to know, is when would you think it appropriate to become more strict about spelling? Or is this something that should be continued throughtout school? I would be a bit worried about the children thinking that because it has not been corrected, then the spelling must be right.

My friend's DS had a physics test last term, which he normally struggles with. He was 12 yo at the time. He missed out on getting an A for his test (for the first time ever) because he mispelt a word. It was recognisable, but the teacher deducted a point so he got a 2. We were all so disappointed and angry about this as it would have been such a boost for him to get his first A in this subject. He is no great scholar, gets by with mainly Cs and the occasional B so it would have meant a lot to him.

I think this is one of those situations where the teacher has to allow a small mistake (even if she had corrected it, she needn't have deducted the point.

Haven't read replies so apologies if (if?!) this sentiment has already been expressed but ... what the hell are schools for then? 'Demoralising'? Well maybe we should stop putting people in jail for mugging old ladies in case it demoralises them ... ffs, it's insanity. As for teachers who cannot use correct spelling or grammar - they'd be a waste of red ink anyway, surely?

Am for you, I think that's really unacceptable. How do kids learn if they're never shown their errors?

at ChubbyScotsBurd - a school should never be compared to a prison....

a school is for all sorts of things, not just teaching spelling. And if correcting every spelling is going to sap a child of confidence and inhibit their writing then I would say that is a BAD school.

tortoiseshell - my nephew is very clever and has a huge vocabulary and reads widely, and significantly above his age group, in English, despite living in non-English speaking countries (the Netherlands and before that Spain) and having a French father. So my sister is wholly responsible for his verbal fluency in English. He goes to English speaking schools, but by far the main influence on his language skills is at home.

In his previous school the expectations of pupils' English was far lower than at his current school. He was bored out of his mind in English lessons, learnt nothing and was very cross with his teachers about this and took his frustration out in many ways.

In his new school the expectations of pupils in English are much higher and he is no longer angry with his teacher.

My sister is quite sure that her son, who is so highly verbal, felt deeply insecure in a system that required so little of him and ultimately demanded that he work below his natural level of attainment. And I know what she means - I would have been the same.

That's a big problem with schools here too Anna. I know so many dc who are bored at school and unchallenged and so many frustrated dps.

cue Admylin.... time for you to get out of bed BTW!

I'd have felt the same. In fact, I used to get bored in English lessons at my UK school and just read books under my desk at the back. That probably taught me more than the English lessons themselves.

hk78 - how old is your child?

That's really interesting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if bi/tri-lingual pupils were a completely different kettle of fish.

If English is not his first language, might he not be using that as his primary means of expression? By which I mean, although his English sounds excellent, in a subject like creative writing, would he use English or French or Dutch or Spanish? It's the freedom to express without fear of correction or admonishment that I think is really important.

That makes a lot more sense to me - thank you!

Do you not think that suddenly finding out that a complicated word they thought they were getting right is actually wrong is only going to confuse and upset them? Not to mention the fact that every time they write it incorrectly they are reinforcing that spelling in their minds?

OK, fury is abating and have skimmed posts.

I think marking has to be appropriate to the child in question, and each child needs to be adequately challenged. I also think that, excepting cases such as dyslexia, much of the poor spelling we see results from children not reading enough material at the right level and I think the blame for that is quite possibly due to big class sizes and lack of support and encouragement to read at home.

I do think there's a risk of dumbing down because so often teachers have to cater for the lowest standard, so unless a child makes it to the lofty position of G&T they aren't challenged enough. The result is that bright kids who are above average but not freakishly so are disserviced. And these kids are the ones who get the really raw deal from these teachers who can't even use proper English themselves. It makes me sad .

Anna - I think what you are saying underlines the fact that good teaching is about teaching to the ability of the child. Of course it was better for your nephew to be expected to rise to exacting standrads.
Conversely, I think a 5.5 year-old who is only just beginning to write, should not be chased over things they couldn't be expected to know.

tortoiseshell - English is his first language, very much so. My sister is English through and through and ensures that the level of conversation and reading material at home are of a high level.

I know what you mean about freedom of expression. But let us not confuse issues. In order to master one's mother-tongue (and any other subsequent language) one needs to master writing, grammar, spelling, have a wide vocabulary, a huge range of expressions etc. One is not more important than another.

To echo what Brangelina so rightly said, in England grammar is barely taught. The fundamentals of language are not properly covered at school. There is huge confusion about what needs to be taught and how.