People are hanged, not hung

[BirdOfPassage]

Heard 'Voices from the Old Bailey' on Radio 4 today. Was astonished to hear all three presenters talking repeatedly of people being 'hung'. They are all experts in history of law or justice, so I can't believe they don't know the difference between 'hung' and 'hanged'. I am guessing that someone in the BBC may have decided that 'hung' is more in line with everyday talk. Pictures are hung, people are hanged. Is that so difficult?

Why is it hanged and not hung? . It feels wrong to say "hanged".

Popbiscuit, as Pan said - hanged is an event, but hung is a state.

"The distinction between hanged and hung is not an especially useful one (although a few commentators claim otherwise). It is, however, a simple one and easy to remember. Therein lies its popularity. If you make a point of observing the distinction in your writing you will not thereby become a better writer, but you will spare yourself the annoyance of being corrected for having done something that is not wrong."
(Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, 1994)

Got it. Thanks.

Praps I should check out this 'dictionary' thing.

Is it cheating to look it up? My personal opinion that hanged is the regularised form of the irregular hung. Often used when people want to appear overly formal, or a bit posh.

you will not thereby become a better writer, but you will spare yourself the annoyance of being corrected for having done something that is not wrong

Love it :)

Also -defenestration - I want more words like this.

"The "drawn" bit isn't about being dragged to the place of execution, VictorianIce. "To draw" means "to remove the innards". It's still used now re game or poultry."

Do you have a reference for that? In terms of referring to the execution, I mean. I know it can be used for animals.

Wikipedia (I know, I know!) suggests there is some uncertainty about the meaning of it in the phrase: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered#Execution_of_the_sentence I hope the link works - see the first paragraph.
I will keep looking to see if I can find a better explanation.

This contemporary account uses 'draw' to refer to the journey, but 'cut' to refer to the disembowelling:
"The greatest and most grievous punishment used in England for such as offend against the State is drawing from the prison to the place of execution upon an hurdle or sled, where they are hanged till they be half dead, and then taken down, and quartered alive; after that, their members and bowels are cut from their bodies, and thrown into a fire, provided near hand and within their own sight, even for the same purpose."
source

I will have a look for a reference, VictorianIce. It's just what I have always "known" since school, if you see what I mean, so I didn't look for anything before posting. I also think the ordering of the phrase makes it unlikely that it refers to dragging to the scaffold, otherwise it would be "drawn, hanged and quartered". Though I suppose you could be dragged from the place of the hanging to the place of the quartering.

On the other hand, if that were the case, it would seem that the phrase is in the wrong order.

Cross-posted! I do know what you mean - I'd always assumed the same thing, but I cant find an authoritative answer on the internet. I wonder when 'drawn' was first used for poultry.

Damned internet and its failure to provide authoritative answers! I must confess I can't find anything academically rigorous at first google, just 10 sites saying one thing and 10 the other.

I drew the same non-committal blank. :( I'm not sure my dictionary will be up to the job - I knew I should have invested in the entire OED. Although I'd need an extension to house it, I'm sure it'd be worth it for moments like this...

VictorianIce's example still includes evisceration, but it's after the dismemberment. I think that's what I was aiming for when I said there were variations in practice. They may well also have been drawn to the place of execution on a hurdle as well. But the elements of suffocation (not the neck breaking hanging of the "drop"), evisceration and dismemberment are key features, with optional humiliation on a hurdle, emasculation and incineration.

Isn't it available on CD ROM these days, VictorianIce? Though it just wouldn't be quite the same as having a special library extension, I grant you

Till I find anything better, then, I guess my argument has to come down to word order!

A CD-ROM you say! The last time I heard somebody say 'CD-ROM' was...ooh let me think...1998. At least I don't pronounce it 'gale'.

I rarely visit this corner, but it is so satsfying to do so!

I adore fenestration, which is surely a french word and so a Latin word, and promise to include it in everyday conversation when I can.

Yes Pan I thunk it was an interesting way to while away an evening.

TinaTurner'sLegs - the thunking bit makes you thunk a bit. Thunk works right across all tenses. So for eg you may have thunked.

I'm not known for being a big thunker though.

Some men are hung

There is of course the story, much beloved of History of English Law lecturers, of the prisoner named Hogg who, appearing before Lord Chancellor Bacon and, being given the chance to move in arrest of judgment of death, claimed ".... kinship with Your Lordship, being as I am Hogg and you are Bacon.". His Lordship is said to have replied "Nay, fellow, Hogg was never kin with Bacon until he was well and truly hung". It seems to me that either Bacon must have twisted normal useage for the sake of his joke or the useage must then have been different.

I am shocked that Radio 4, my touchstone for all that is good and proper in the world, allowed that one through, or that the presenters allowed themselves to be bullied by a producer. It's like when English people playing English characters in US TV programmes use vocabulary and sentence structure that is clearly American- don't they question the lines? Jared Harris in Mad Men is always doing that.