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Tantrums - not the usual thread - serious help needed

36 replies

lisalisa · 11/07/2005 15:44

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happymerryberries · 11/07/2005 17:06

DD is definatly not adhd, she just had her own way of doing things and took her time coming to terms with the fact the ther rest of the world didn't revolve around her. She is now delightful and is currently reading to her little brother!

lisalisa · 11/07/2005 17:10

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WideWebWitch · 11/07/2005 17:36

lisalisa, I wasn't saying your dd may be adhd, (and was careful to say that too!) I just wanted to explain that my friend has modified her management of her dd because the dd just doesn't respond to any traditional methods (she was friend's second child) and it HAS worked. Her dd does NOT have adhd but they wondered about it at one stage. I've seen her with and without sugar and enumbers too and the difference is absolutely astounding, really dramatic. After ONE tablespoon of beans with sugar (as opposed to Whole Earth ones she usually has) I saw her react v strongly, not a pretty sight. The dd in question is delightful btw, I really like her and she's clever, popular and happy. I hope that clears that up!

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vwvic · 11/07/2005 17:47

Lisalisa, I really feel for you. I've been there, and eapecially understand what you mean about being worried what you'll do next. My dd1 sounds very similar to yours.

When she was 2, she would have tantrums that lasted 2-3 hours. These were full on, violent, scratching/kicking/hittind anything nearby tantrums. She would eventually fall asleep through exhaustion, but when she woke up she would pick up where she had left off and carry on regardless! I too was about 6 months pregnant at this point, and feeling very close to breaking point.

Eventually, she had an eye test for a squint which appeared very suddenly. We found that she had very poor vision. This was a total shock as we had never suspected for a second that she was having trouble seeing- she could always see the smallest crumb on the carpet etc. However, the most unexpected thing was that within two days of getting her glasses, the meltdowns stopped. We can tell even now if she needs her glasses changing, as guess what? She starts to go down the everlasting meltdown road again.

FWIW, she is also gifted, and extremely sensitive to sugar in her diet.

I don't mean to scare you, but have you had her vision checked by an optician? Most of the big high street chains will test children once they get to about 3, and if nothing is wrong then at least you have ruled it out as a cause, and can focus your energies on another solution.

Once again, I do want to let you know how much I can empathise with you. Just grit your teeth and hold on tight, things really will improve. HTH

MaryP0p1 · 11/07/2005 18:06

Lisalisa, I have spoken to you before and know that you have a few problems with work, childcare etc. I didn't realise till I read this thread you worked in London. I hope things weren't too horrible for you.

You sound like you have a lots on your plate with 3 children and another on the way. I found my DD now 7 didn't really mind her brother until about 20 months then the sibling rivalry started. They argue a lot. Then you are also expecting another baby which always unsets the applecart. Perhaps she's feeling insecure and unsettled and some SPECIAL time with mummy will help. It might also give you soem time to strengthen your relationship with her. Is her behaviour the same with Daddy or is it focused mainly at you?

vkone · 11/07/2005 21:40

I've one suggestion to make (tho v inexperienced about tantrums - one son 18 mths).

Could you teach your duahgter some calming/relaxation techniques - doing it when she's not having a tantrum and with you, poss. alone together. Try and relate this to her behaviour and then when she does go into one, try bringing her back to the technique you've chosen.

This probably sounds very hippish (my yoga teacher does it with her daughter - infact she taught her to meditate), but in the long term it will help your daughter - if she can start to learn self control now, it could save her alot of heartache when she's grown up. Also soem one on one time with you both taking time to chill out can only help.

Sorry if it sounds daft, but anythings worth trying right? Mia

shrub · 11/07/2005 22:07

don't know if the following may help but my ds1's teacher gave me the following advice when i got worried and it really made me change my whole outlook of being a parent:
1.they are trying to make sense of the world
2. you are their whole world
3.they hold up a mirror to our own behaviour
4.demonstrate the behaviour you want them to copy
5. this hopefully teaches them to manage their emotions
6. at this age they want to be involved in everything you are doing. if mealtimes a problem could you let her make her own dinner - a sandwich, salad etc. something she could safely do and would feel sense of acheivement. even let her grow some food - tomatoes, sweetcorn, peas etc.
7. if playing up short explanation of why you need to do xyz and then positive outcome. ie. sorry you can't have any choclate but after tea you can have abc? instead of saying what she can't do give her some pointers to what she can do
8. its rather like educating an elderly befuddled aunt but if you can keep things polite, positive and upbeat as much as poss.
hope it helps got to go and feed my ds3 and good luck with pregnancy - i booked 4 massages when expecting this time around and it was the best money i ever spent - felt like i was floating on a cloud for 3 days afterwards - worth a try? x

lisalisa · 12/07/2005 11:28

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KatieinSpain · 12/07/2005 12:34

Lisalisa, what about exercise? Is she calmer when she has been active? Would something like dance classes, given her musical bent, give her a positive outlet for some of her energy?

shrub · 12/07/2005 21:38

lisalisa- how are things going today? looking back at my post it sounded a bit unfriendly - i was writing in note form as ds3 was getting impatient waiting for his feed! i second katieinspain's advice re exercise - we recently got a trampoline and net so he can let off steam at the end of the day especially around the danger zone times of 4-7 and he loves it plus swimming. i also took him for cranial osteopathy (can't explain it but its sort of tiny manipulations of skull and nervous system i think) when he was 2-3 years which had a dramatic effect - he completely surrendered to this complete stranger and fell asleep in his arms during treatment and fell asleep for up to 4 hours after each session. trying to remember more wisdom from my ds1's nursery teacher this may not make any sense but at the time i had a lot of baggage from my own childhood and so little confidence about being a mum and trying to be a perfect mum when she told me there is no such thing as a perfect mother, and there is no such thing as a perfect child but she also said there was no such thing as a naughty child either! and when i took a step back i realised she was right.
there are still times i battle with this. since becoming a mum it has been a real struggle to surrender that loss of control - to the mess, the tantrums, to the tutting in the supermarket etc. i think the key to this is notto take it personally and i this was so hard for me when i was previously such a control freak. You must be so tired -i'm just getting over the exhaustion from my last pregnancy and feeding in the middle of night (ds3 11 weeks) and you are expecting your forth! please don' t be so hard on yourself. can she stay at grandma's for a week (when they are at nursery it shouldn't be such a problem) or dh to help more/even ask for time off work- it might just give you the break you need and deserve?

marthamoo · 12/07/2005 22:06

lisalisa, I could almost have written your post. Ds2 (3.5) has been a nightmare since we went down to Wales last half term - so six weeks now. He wasn't 'easy' before but the last few weeks have pushed me to the limit. Last Saturday morning was - I think - the worst morning I've ever spent with my children: it took me three hours to get us out of the house. Yesterday I pretty much reached breaking point - we had a pleasant morning, then when it was time to go to nursery (which he loves) he took his clothes off and refused to eat lunch. I tried cajoling, reasoning, shouting, bribing - in the end decided to physically get him dressed and he turned into a wild animal: I have scratches up both arms, he was biting, clawing at my face etc. I put him in his room and when I came to get him out he slammed the door in my face. Eventually I pretended to make a phone call to nursery to say he couldn't come as he wouldn't get dressed or eat his lunch. This had the desired effect and he co-operated but by the time I dropped him at Nursery I felt utterly drained and like I had gone ten rounds in a boxing ring. I didn't want to go and get him again at 3pm He was equally horrible at bedtime - dh took over and had a pitched battle to get him bathed and into bed. It is impacting on all of us - ds1 is increasingly sidelined (as well as picked on and pushed about by ds2 on a regular basis). Yesterday, by bedtime I was in tears and utterly despondent - feeling a failure as a Mum and at my wit's end. Everything has become a battle - going out, staying in, what he will wear/eat/do.

Ds2 can also be an utter delight (when he is occupied/amused and getting his own way) This is just not possible all the time though, as you know. When I told one of the members of staff at Nursery how hard it had been to get him there (I didn't say about the biting and scratching - I was too embarrassed) she couldn't believe it: he's a lovely little boy there.

Anyway - having got to a very low point over the last few days I went into Waterstone's yesterday and bought...a self help book. Dh and I sat down last night, together, and () I read the first three chapters out loud. It's called Getting Your Little Darlings To Behave by Sue Cowley (publ. Continuum). There's nothing radical in there - and it's stuff I 'knew' already - but it sort of refreshed me, got dh and I talking about tackling this together (we sometimes approach things differently and I don't think that helps) and, above all, trying to be more positive. I have started to actively dislike ds2 sometimes and live for bedtime - and that is not how I wasnt to be as a parent.

Now, I'm not saying this book has worked an overnight miracle - but today has been the best day I have had for ages. I've been like Joyce Grenfell, I've been so upbeat, positive and fun and - it's worked. He still had a couple of wobbles (had a pop at ds1 when he came from school and wasn't for having his teeth brushed) but today has been so much better. And I've only read the first three chapters! I think I needed to really stop, take stock, and get out of the negative mindset I've dropped into with regard to ds2. Like your dd, he is very bright, and needs a lot of stimulation (ds1 was a doddle in comparison).

You mustn't be too hard on yourself - apart from anything else you're pregnant (I said to dh yesterday - we were trying for another baby when ds1 was this age - if he's been as bad as ds2 he'd have been a only child) so you must be utterly exhausted. Try the book: it has really given me a fresh perspective. And don't feel bad about dd's back - I have been ashamed at how roughly I have manhandled ds2 recently - and when he has really hurt me it has taken all my willpower not to lash out

Hang on in there.

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