Biting your child

[Mamashep]

Has anyone bitten their child? My lil terrorist of a 2.8 yr old DD has bitten my 11 week old DS really hard, so hard that her head was shaking and his skin was v.v. nearly broken. I was so unbelievably cross I shut her in the hall while I comforted a v. upset baby, not to mention a v. upset me! She was screaming and banging on the door and I let her in...then I bit her back OMG what is happening to me, I used to be so calm, have never smacked her and can usually just put her in the hallway for some time out for both of us before I explode
All this because I said she couldn't have a bloody date and banana bar cos lunch was minutes away from readiness.
To add insult to injury we made a reward chart this morning to continue with her behaviour...which is mostly good
Please help, advise, commiserate etc etc

[Rhubarb]

I cannot get over the image of a grown man putting his child's skin in his mouth and biting down on it.

But it's ok because it was a 'nip'?

A grown man?

Sickening.

[ErnestTheBavarian]

really astounded by the number of people who think it's ok to bite little kids!

My dd has bitten a few times. She's 13 months old. I don't for 1 minute think that if I bit her back she'd understand and never do it again. She'll be hurt, scream, but 100% positive she'd bite again.

So, a genuine Q to those who think biting back is ok -

1. would you bite a 13 month old baby?

1. would you bite a 5/6/7 year old child? Or do you keep it to non-verbal children who can't tell other people you bite them? What's the "acceptable" agae range for biting little kids?

1. What if you bite once and they don't "learn their lesson". Do you carry on biting them every time they bite?

1. Would you bite them in public, eg at the playground, at the supermarket, at your friend's house, or only at home where there's no one to see you biting your child?

1. Do you always teach your child not to do something undesirable by mimicking back so they can learn how bad it is? So if a child bites you (or someone else), you bite them back. If a child spits at you, do you spit in their face? If a child steals from a shop, do you show them how naughty it is by shoplifting from tesco? If a child throws their food on the floor do you do the same?

If not, why do you do it with biting, but not with other undesirable behaviour?

It just doesn't make any sense. I truly cannot believe anyone under the age of 95 thinks it's ok to bite a little child.

[ErnestTheBavarian]

just seen Rhubarbs post which has raised another Q in my mind for those who think biting's ok. If you decide to bite back to show them it hurts, and you only do 'a little nip', what happens if the child bites again, after all, a little nip and a hard bite are v. different. Do you think, wel, clearly a little nip wasn't enough, next time I must make sure to bit harder?

Seriously. WHat happens if it doesn't work?

[foxinsocks]

how horrible

[mamadiva]

Is this really that big a deal?

Op obviously feels guilty so not as though just bites her child for fun, I'm not saying it's right by all means but we can all lash out and as I said my mum did this when we were younger and does it now with my 3YO sisters because one of them is a constant biter.

I would'nt do this myself but to me it is not abuse, infact I reckon that's just the usual over reacting comment when someone thinks it is a little bit wrong.

If we are talking full scale biting just for the fun of it then yes it's abuse but many, many people do this (well a fair few poeple I know anyway) and a lot of people say it is an effective way of stopping it.

I'm not trying to justify anyone's actions as I say I don't particularly agree with it but we all do things we regret when we are pushed to the limits!

[MamaMaiasaura]

its wrong, plain and simple anbd those of you saying its ok imo are either trying to relieve themseleves of the guilt they feel for doing it or allowing someone else to.

It is child abuse.

[MovingOutOfBlighty]

I think the word child abuse is overused on this site. I actually feel my blood boil at the use in this context as it belittles child abuse. As a survivor of an abusive step father it really upsets me to hear about it used in this way.

The OP lost her temper and did something that generations of parents have done which is try and show the biter how it feels to be the bitee. OK, it is wrong.
But I think when we are talking about biting here it is not in a repeated,calculated, hateful way.

At worst she is misguided, in the same way as people who smack their DCs are, but she is also human. She has learnt from that.
Awen, if this truly is child abuse, then the children should be taken away immediately. Is that what you are saying?
Hitting is also 'abuse'. I have seen many of the posters admit to that, even the ones who condemn the biting. Perhaps they should all lose their children as well?
Please do not overuse that word abuse.

[wonderingwondering]

jackbauer - I see what you are saying, I think where we differ is that I'd expect a child who has just bitten to go straight in the buggy, then if they do it again, they go home.

But if your daughter reacts to a warning from you when 'mid lunge' (!) then your tactics are obviously working. I'm all for the 'teaching' approach generally - time out, explaining - which may take a few times to sink in, but for biting, I go for more immediate and drastic action.

But that is individual responses. As I said before, I'm not 'horrified' by the idea of someone biting their child, it has been done for generations. But it is not how I would (or do) deal with a child of mine that's biting.

But I still think however you deal with it, the most important thing is that the parent does deal with it effectively. Biting back is not as bad as ignoring it or letting it go.

[canttouchthis]

well, at last there are posters finally commenting on how they do not class 'biting' as child abuse in the true sense of the word. Yes, people on this thread have totally went OTT on the 'abuse' train of thought.

I agree wholeheartedly with MovingOutOfBlighty who knows it's not a great way to deal with biting, but recognises that it wasn't done regularly, it's not done to deliberately terrorise the child and to be abusive, it's done with a rationale behind it.

I also agree that calling 'biting' to teach a child a lesson (once) is not a form of child abuse, and it also does belittle real child abuse that goes on day in, day out for children.

The world is not black and white. There are shades of grey, you know

[canttouchthis]

yes mamadiva, it's a complete overreaction by some posters!

[canttouchthis]

"But I think when we are talking about biting here it is not in a repeated,calculated, hateful way."

Exactly the point I've been trying to get across for ages now...

[MrsMattie]

I would never under any circumstances bite anyone. Ever. I just do not think you teach a child not to bite by biting them. It's madness.

However, I have a 4 yr old who is intensely jealous and at times violent towards his baby sister (and has been since she was born 8 months ago) and so I do sympathise with the OP and that feeling of absolute outrage when your baby is attacked. I have smacked my DS quite hard on several occasions and done things like lock him in his room in the heat of the moment - always after he has done something really and truly frightening, like bite or stamp on his baby sister . Sometimes you do lose control, unfortunately. I feel awful about smacking my DS - it's not something I ever thought I would do...

[MamaMaiasaura]

It is aform of child abuse and no i dont use the term willy nilly and you are not the sole survivor either sadly Despite my experiences in childhood I am not saying that the children ought be reomved, which is ludicrous in this situation. What I am saying is that biting is NOT ok, it is classified as child abuse. The discussion on the thread has gone beyond the OP posters situation to a general discussion of whether biting is acceptable. I say it is not, and that it is is abusive. End of.

I know that the word abuse is very strong as there are so many degrees of it and am not belittling anyones horrific experiences.

I know the OP had a particularly hard day, though i cannto fathom why after time out she then bit her toddler. If this was after the adult who is meant to be the guide and protector acts, what was the inital reaction that was avoided by time out?

[MamaMaiasaura]

MrsMattie - but snacking can be an immediate outburst of emotion and not thought out, as another poster said as well.

[kate76]

I agree with everything Rhubarb has said. Can't understand the mentality of people who find its acceptable to bite your child. how awful.

[juicy12]

Ditto. OMG, I seriously cannot believe some of the posts on this thread. And I can't believe that the OP asked for people to commiserate - who with? Her or the DD? I wouldn't presume to comment on some of the posters who have said that they are survivors of child abuse, but surely there are many different forms of abuse? When you hear those terrible stories in the news, with a list of injuries, bite marks are often mentioned. Reading many of these comments would make me wary of leaving my kids in childcare if there are so many people for whom biting a child seems to be an acceptable form of teaching/punishment. Both my DS (now 5) and DD (2.5) have bitten me in the past - once causing an infection, but I can honestly say that it would never have occured to me to bite them back. What with me being the grown-up and them being the children in my care! I've shouted in anger many a time (blush), but I really think if you can be vitriolic enough to let the initial situation pass and then bite a person who is, say, at least half your size, you probably need to be on the phone to someone about anger management rather than posting on a parenting forum. I'm baffled - are people just being terribly polite and not wanting to offend the OP by criticsing (sp)? Blimey what a sad indictment. yes, it's bloody awful being a parent sometimes, but we're the adults.

[JackBauer]

I am a survivor of physical abuse as a child.
I don't think this makes my opinion any more or less valid than anyone else's and I have had to think for awhile before I posted that.

I think this is abuse, anything where you physcially hurt or intend to hurt a child (and lets face it, anyone 'nipping' their child still intends for it to hurt, that is the point, no?) is abusing them.
I don't think OP should have her children removed, or any of the other posters from what I have read, but I do think that you should all realise that this is what you are doing and stop makign excuses for it or jumping on a sole voice of support and ignoring all other opinions.

[MamaMaiasaura]

Jackb - very well said.

[MovingOutOfBlighty]

Juicy12 - repeatedly shouting at DCs is also child abuse according to NSPCC. Some of the worst abuse from my stepfather incorperated shouting and intimidation. I NEVER shout at my dcs as I know the harm it can do. But I don't want to get into that anymore.

We had a 'biter' in our toddler group. The mum was lovely. She had tried everything but he was relentless. Once he ran straight accross the room at my dd and bit her so hard on the shoulder he broke the skin. He still held on for many seconds as I tried to pull him off her. She had bruises for days. It was terrifying for my dd. In the end my poor friend had to isolate him from other kids for several weeks which made both him and her very sad. He finally had his granny stay and she did the nip back when he nipped her. And I'm sorry to tell you this, but it worked.
He didn't do it again and his mum could start to integrate him back in. I'm definitely not saying it is perfect. I looked at Toddler Taming on this one and he advocates a sharp smack for this (which seemed a bit odd) and also said that although he wouldn't advise biting the bitee, it has been done for thousands of centuries by parents. He thinks it is a bit too eye for an eye and i agree, but the poster sounded desperate.

[kate76]

I kept thinking about this thread last night and felt sad as I watched my DD toddling around. Toddlers are just so yummy and lush! The idea of biting her makes me feel quite sick. I think people often just forget that, emotionally, they are still babies really.

[juicy12]

Er, woah there MovingoutofBlighty. I don't want to get into semantics here but I didn't actually say I "repeatedly shout" at my DCs. Um... I don't. And that's lovely that the toddler in your group stopped biting after his granny bit him back. Really nice. My parents never laid a finger or set of teeth on me when I was little or my grandparents and i have to say I'm really pretty pleased about that, even more so now I am the custodian of two beautiful DC of my own.