3 week old baby left to cry for 45 mins. by foster carers/parents.I'm concerned.

[bubble99]

An aquaintance of ours has parents who are foster carers. They have been fostering for years and specialise in fostering very young babies. I was talking to her (the aquaintance) a couple of weeks ago and she said that the police and social services had brought a two week old baby to the house in the middle of the night. I spoke to her again a couple of days ago and asked how the baby was doing. She said that her parents had left the baby to cry for 45 minutes during the night to 'teach her to sleep'. I am very concerned about this. This, to me, seems wrong. Tiny babies cry for a reason and I'm really upset to think of this little one crying and crying and not getting any response. I know about controlled crying but that is for older babies, not tiny little scraps. I feel I should do something. Any ideas? Should I contact social services? And if so, what do I say?

hi, bubble99, I agree with the majority of mumsnet mums. I think you should report them, as gothicmama said even if it is for them to be retrained. I think there are too many people afraid of reporting 'incidents' incase it reflects badly on themselves or indeed that they are completey wrong, however maybe there wouldn't be the same horror stories we hear and read about if more people did report. So I say go with your gut feeling!! let us know how you get on.

And they are being paid to look after this baby and letting it scream for 45 mins isn't looking after it in my opinion. Tough decision for you to take though I agree.

I once phoned the NSPCC about a child I was concerned about and they gave me lots of useful advice on how to deal with the problem, ie how to broach the subject with the parent/carer etc. They are so helpful, it might worth ringing them for some advice and then you will feel like you've done something in the meantime.

Rather than social services, I was advised by the NSPCC in a similar situation to contact the local health visitor. The health visitor will have an automatic right to visit any child on its patch and it will not appear to be anything out of the ordinary. They would also chat, as a matter of course, about sleep patterns....so they may actually be able to get some useful advise and help without thinking that they have been 'rumbled'. Call a local GP and ask the receptionist for the health visitor for a particular street. They are normally very pleased to be given this kind of heads up and it is not as heavy handed as social services.....

Bubble99, sorry but it seem to me you are getting worked up about something an acquaintance has said to you, not something you yourself have witnessed. Are you sure your acquaintance has it right? Like cab says she could have got the wrong end of the stick and they could have been trying to comfort her. I don't know. It sounds harsh - has it happened more than once? I would find out before I took it any further. Older people often do have different ideas of childrearing but it doesn't automatically mean it is 'regarded as barbaric' or 'way out of date'. My SIL and BIL are foster parents in their 50's and have recently cared for a baby from the age of 9 hours to 8 months. They did a fantastic job and she has now gone to a loving, permanent home. I do know that they had MONTHS of training before becoming foster parents, and their attitudes to things like this were examined in depth at the time.

I would wait and see, and perhaps make it your business to find out form your acquaintance how things are going before you decide what to do.

I've got several friends who have left their babies this young to 'cry it out' in the night from an early age. I've also had friends who put their crying babies in the hospital nursery because they wanted sleep in the days after giving birth! Letting babies cry is an issue that parents disagree about - and it's common practice still among lots of groups, particularly less educated and younger mums. I'm sure there are lots of health visitors who wouldn't see anything wrong with it either - if the baby isn't hungry, wet or ill.

Personally we may disagree but opinions and practice does vary... IMO!

MP, I jave to disagree that less educated and young mums leave their babies to cry. The only parents I see wheeling screaming babies arould in a blase fashion are the mid 30's mums. The young mums are almost in tears within 5 minutes, they are all very aware of how the world sees them.

How can anyone bear to listen to that tiny newborn cry for so long? It would just break my heart!

I'm inclined to give newborns a break - they've just come from somewhere warm and comfortable, where they were never hungry or thirsty, into a cold, wide world.

Um my ds cried this much in the night as a newborn. I remember it very vividly as I was in the private wing of Kings and felt awful about keeping everyone awake. I had Sky News on with subtitles as it was so noisy. Horrible.
I think the idea of contacting the HV is a good one. After all if your 'informant' is only an acquaintance, you don't know if she is reliable or prone to exaggeration or even lies.
And one person's bottle 'force fed' at midnight is another person's 'dream feed'.

Personally, I wouldn't involve social services based on hearsay. If you are really worried then try and discuss it with the foster parents themselves first before getting outside help. There may of been a misunderstanding, or maybe it just seemed like 45 minutes as it was the middle of the night??

MP yes! I remember I put both DS1 and DS2 in the postnatal ward nursery too. They were keeping the rest of the ward awake, I couldn't settle them, and I was shattered! It was the nurses' suggestion on both occasions. They are both healthy happy boys now, no harm done. I on the other hand would definitely have murdered someone if I hadn't had that coupld of hours' sleep.

I'm slightly surprised they would place such a small baby with older foster carers. Does your friend live with her parents to hear all this ? How reliable is her experience ?

Presumably the social worker and HV would be visiting very regularly at this stage and may well come whilst she is around. I, reluctantly, don't think you can interfere officially, as it is pure hearsay, but your acquaintance could say something about how distressed the baby seems at night. Could you contrive to meet the foster family to compare baby experiences and raise it then ?

hth

I agree that talking to the foster parents first is probably the best idea.The fact you have heard this second hand makes it a harder decision.What did your aquaintance think of whats happening? Were her parents foster carers when she was young?The reason i ask is i am wondering if these allegations are born from jealousy rather than the truth.i dont mean to sound harsh.do u know the f carers yourself,what are their views on child rearing,could u imagine them leaving the baby to cry?

Also, even if she heard it herself, does she have her kids of her own and could she have misunderstood what was going on.

Bubble99, I wonder if it is because they are older people. I know my mother was taught that it was good to leave babies to cry as it strengthened their lungs. In fact we were wheeled down the garden for 2 hours every afternoon for fresh air. She would go back into the house & do all her stuff or put her feet up, happily believing that we were enjoying the air!!!!
I would tread carefully here, as these people may be the only option some small babies have. Surely better to be left to cry for 45mins in a safe warm house than be in some godforsaken hellhole. It is a fairly desperate measure when such small babies need foster parents.

Bugsy, I put both my boys out in the garden in their pram (well wrapped up) for as long as they slept in the daytime - this wasn't in the dark ages, it was 2000 and 2004! Fresh air is good for babies.

Plus older foster parents are just as capable as younger ones of loking after babies. You are right when you say that babies are usually fostered because they were in desperate straits - my SIL currently is looking after a 4 year old whose father abused her and whose mother refuses to stop seeing him. . The baby they have recently handed over to adopted parents was born to a teenager who walked out of the hospital afterwards and refused to have anything to do with her. Foster parents don't generally do it for the money - it's because they care. It's very unlikely that this baby is being wrongly treated.

I think you should express your concerns to your aquaitance - and get her to talk to her parents - what she is calling "force feeding at midnight" others may call a "dream feed" to get the baby to sleep through a bit longer.
Your aquaintances parents may have slightly exagerated the time they left the baby to cry -- and the aquaintance may have slightly exagerated it to you. Surely if she had been worried she would have had a word with her parents.

I would double check facts and then speak to the HV rather than SS as suggested below. I'm sure their hearts are in the right place and it seems extremem and unfair to contact SS as the first call.

Do let us know how you get on and what you decide.

Another thought: is your friend a mum? Because non-mums would probably see lots of baby-related issues very differently to mums. If I told a non-mum friend that I used to strip dd to her nappy so that she was cold enough to stay awake for a nightfeed, they might think that was fairly horrifying torture/force feeding! xx

As a former foster carer with 10 years experience, I can assure you that there will be visits from the carers' link worker and also from the child's social worker on at least a weekly basis with a baby this young. The HV will be closely involved and there would also be contact with the parents of some sort depending on circumstances and reasons for the baby being fostered in the first place.

So there will be plenty of people to whom the carers can talk if need be to report any problems and they will be asked to keep daily diary/log book which the link worker has to read and sign. Even if the carers themselves don't confide any problems they may be having, the social workers/link workers would pick up on anything they thought was amiss. Granted, they are not there every minute of the day but I'm certain these people would not have fostered for this long if there were any concerns about the care they provide.

If there are any problems with the care this baby is receiving it is very likely to be picked up by one or other of the verious professionals involved.

It is possible your acquaintance has embellished the crying episode somewhat, or it may indeed be true. Whichever, I would be wary about wading in with all guns blazing and reporting it to SS just yet. Keep talking to your friend and asking after the baby in a friendly/interested manner as often as you can - that way you will be aware if this is an ongoing prob and you can act on it if you still feel uneasy.

No, the aquaintance is not a mum herself and as I've said she doesn't seem to like babies very much. Someone who knows her a lot better than we do has said that as a child she would regularly have to share her mum and dad with fostered babies. She doesn't live with her parents so she is reporting, possibly innacurately, how her parents are dealing with this particular baby.

DH has met her dad and has said he seems like a lovely guy, open and friendly and I can't believe people would foster half-heartedly. I don't know what the payments are but I wouldn't think they're much of an incentive. For my own peace of mind I'm going to make sure I stick my beak in by continuing to ask how the baby is doing.

bubble99: another thing that occurs to me is that 3 weeks old is prime colic time. I was constantly paranoid that one of my neighbours would phone social services when ds2 was small as it all seemed so LOUD and LONG in the middle of the night! Long periods of crying isn't synonymous to neglect.

i think reporting to ss is a bit over the top.
why?
these people are experienced carers.
your info is second hand. unless yoou know this to be a fact, then what is the point of upsetting everyone concerned.
someone mentioned emotional impact, i think the baby is probly already pretty disturbed if she had to be taken away from her mom in the middle of the night.
if i was in this situation, i would go see the foster carers myself before going to ss.

Personally I would not speak to the people directly and would call SS. From past experience, speaking to people (no matter how diplomatic) tends to create a big stressy problem for all concerned and changes nothing.

If you call SS and tell them what you ahve been told then at least they can deal with it in a professional manner.

No disrepect but if theya re 'experienced carers' and that is how they treat babies, do you think they will lsiten to the lieks of you - and change what they do????

Call me harsh....

I think that you must report this to someone - either health visitor or social services so that the concerns can be looked into by someone with experience of child protection - it might be that the allegation is totally unfounded but if there is any chance that this or other babies may be being force fed or left to cry ( or possibly worse)then it needs to be looked at. Being experienced and seeming nice do not mean that they are not mistreating this baby - deliberatly or through ignorance. Routine visits do not always pick up problems - remember victoria climbie. If everyone was a bit more vigilant then maybe some children would be spared from such abuse.
Speaking to the carers themselves is not a good idea - firstly if they are doing things that they should not be then this would alert them to the fact that people knew, force feeding and leaving to cry could be the tip of the iceberg - also because it is a sensitive and emotive situation it is better dealt with by proffessionals.