2.5 year old bilingual daughter - understands everything, speaks hardly at all... advice?

[tichey]

Hello,

I have been reading some of the general posts on speech delay and some people suggested I should post here as you all have great advice.

My daughter is nearly 2.5 years old. She is being brought up in a bilingual household and has a speech delay.

She has been assessed by two speech therapists - one privately in December and again on the NHS this week. Both have confirmed that her understanding in english (her second language) is beyond what they would expect for her age and I would say that her french understanding is even better as that is her first language. However her receptive language is far behind her peers.

Until about one month ago, she only had about 10 words (all french). Over the last month, she has gone up to about 30 words (nearly all french) but they are all one syllabal words. Over the last few weeks, she has begun to say the first syallabal of lots of words, but won't complete a word and won't say more than one word at a time. She also cannot say certain letters / sounds at all i.e. l, v and f.

She walked at 12 months, but only crawled when she was two. She is not physically confident (cannot jump or climb up play equipment easily on her own) but has very good fine motor skills and in all other respects seems absolutely fine.

Both speech therapists have said that she has an expressive speech delay but cannot say the cause of this. Do any of you recognise these characteristics? Should we be worried or is she just taking longer to speak because her focus has been so much on the understanding up until now?

I am worried that maybe she may have a speech disorder such as dyspraxia, although I know it is a bit too early to diagnose this..

Grateful for any advice...

thank you

Hello again,

I am just reposting again in the hope that moondog might be around and able to provide some thoughts / advice..

thank you

Armelle

BUMP
have also left a link to here, on a thread I was on where moondog was

30 piece puzzles and all the letters of the alphabet? That is great. My DS is 4yo and does not recognise all the letters of the alphabet.

I am sure she will be chattering away to you soon. As I said my DD was slow to start speaking and now she just blethers and blethers and blethers. Nonstop.

thanks mmelindt and gigglewitch. I think I am going to try a new post entitled moondog please come! as still no luck in getting hold of her.

Tichey, hi.
Sorry I didn't see this before.

I can't of course offer any definitive advice over t'Internet but you have been given lots of useful information here.
It is indeed normal for children who are bi/trilingual to be slower initially.I've seen it in my own family both immediate and extended, in which there are various permutation of English/Welsh/French/Korean going on.

2.5 is still pretty young so not to worry too much yet.The obviousl things help-lots of talking, reading,singing, imaginary play, limited tv.

A salt who can't speak French won't be able to assess your child properly. I speak French but don't work privately. You should be able to find a French speaking salt through this site which lists accredited independent SALTs.

There aren't however that many standardised assessments that can be used at this age.

If I saw her,I would be interested in thnigs like play, attention, listening, pointing, showing of emotions and so on.

If those are ok, then less need to worry, but as I said, it's the Internet, so am limited in what I can offer.

Easy to find stuff on milesones but important not to panic if your child doesn't hit them exactly.

Hi Moondog,

It is so wonderful to hear from you : ) and so kind of you to take the time to respond to my post and also for your really encouraging advice.

I have been quite worried about this, especially over the last week, infact I have more or less gone back to sleeping as much as I did when she was a couple of weeks old because I have been so worried, so it is great to get your advice.

My main worry has been about making sure that we don't miss a diagnosis if something is wrong because all the things I read keep saying how important it is to get an early diagnosis for a disorder to improve the chances of things getting better (I have been particulalry concerned about dyspraxia....)

Anyway, if you don't mind too much, here are a couple of additional things about my dd - sorry this is so long, I just thought the more info, the better.

a) she does not watch any tv at the moment (apart from sometimes, as a very special treat, 5 minutes of Maisy, but this only happens about once every week).

b)we talk non stop to her - infact - she wants us to do this and have been using all the techniques given to us (we had 3 sessions with a private speech therapist to give us some ideas and have books etc on language delay)

c) She has a huge concentration span - her child minder has commented on this - she is able to concentrate on one toy for up to 1.5 hours (this was a maximum). The usual is baout 20-30 minutes.

d) Her listening skills were assessed by both NHS and private speech therapist when she was about 27 months old (in english, her weakest language I think...)and deemed to be beyond what they would expect for her age. She can understand 4 part commands with no repetition e.g. give me the spoon and put the plate under the cup.

e) she is extremely expressive in other ways e.g. when she wants to eat, she goes miam, miam, when she wants something e.g. a yogurt in the fridge, she'll take us to the fridge, or when she wants to tell us what she is drawing (e.g today, an icecream van), she'll find a book with an icecream van and show us the picture. She also uses pointing and other hand gestures all the time (e.g. touching her head when she wants her hat).

f) she's very sensitive to other people's emotions - kisses and cuddles a lot and tries to comfort children and babies who are upset.

g) she loves to play. At the moment, reading (both alone and with us) are her favourite things, as are puzzles (up to 30 pieces on her own) and colouring. Also pretend play with tea parties and her animals eating. She has a little girl monkey and maman monkey who mime out daily activities that she and I do. Although she does not like dressing up. She is not a big fan of climbing equipment, ride on toys or tricycles, but loves the swings and her dance class.

h) As I mentioned in my earlier post, the things I have noticed about her speech are 1. an amazing improvement over the last month - from 5 words in January to about 30 one syllable words now (nearly all french) and 5 or so complete and understandable two sylable words (encore, chapeau, en bas, en haut) and probably up to about 100 other words where she just says the first sylable (but in both languages). She's also starting to string together two words together, especially those she knows but sometimes needs encouragement for this e.g. dd: bain me: petit bain? dd: non.... grand me: grand?
dd: grand...bain

Sorry for this huge post, it is just so great to be able to speak to a salt with experience and knowledge. Does this provide any more useful information for you?

Your NHS patients are so lucky....

I'm going to look at your website now to find a french speaking salt....

thank you so much....

It all sounds great to me.

I hope you get to see a french speaking SALT who will set your mind at rest.

Thank you! I might get a good night sleep tonight at last.

I have found one salt on your website who says she specialises in speech therapy for older people with strokes etc but who has "some" experience of speech therapy for children whose first language is french or italian.

Would you say it is more improtant to go for a salt who can speak both languages, even though her knowledge on young children probably won't be as good, or to go for a salt who specialises in pre-schoolers but who does not speak french?

What site are you on Tichey.
I've linked you to something completely different.

Try here and search under Bilingualism.
Ideally you should have someone who knows about small kids and bilingualism 9ideally French). Shouldn't be too hard.

thanks. yes sorry I should have said I found this website on one of your old posts when I saw the link you gave me was a bit odd.

So just to check, its OK if someone has experience of bilingualism, even if they cannot speak french? Because the only one I can find within about 100 miles of me who does speak french specialises in rehabilitation language but there are more who say they have experience of bilingual children.

Knowledge of bilingual issues (even if not French) most important.
However, the issues that concern you are ones which transcend the issue of speaking in French specifically.

yes. I see what you mean. The private salt we saw first asked if I could speak in english to my dd when we were in the speech therapy sessions to make it easier for her to understand what we said. I refused to do this as it would have been totally unnatural for me to speak english to my dd and would have confused her completely...

I don't know if I am concerned about verbal dyspaxia because I think she may have it or because I have convinced myself that she may have it. All the posts so far, including yours have been so positive about speech delay in bilingual children being perfectly ok...

yes. I see what you mean. The private salt we saw first asked if I could speak in english to my dd when we were in the speech therapy sessions to make it easier for her to understand what we said. I refused to do this as it would have been totally unnatural for me to speak english to my dd and would have confused her completely...

I don't know if I am concerned about verbal dyspaxia because I think she may have it or because I have convinced myself that she may have it. All the posts so far, including yours have been so positive about speech delay in bilingual children being perfectly ok...

Oh Tichey, that is appalling what the SALT asked.
I can't believe it.
Silly silly woman.

Oh I am glad you think so too. I felt a bit that I was being unreasonable, but am glad now that I stuck to what I thought was right.

I'm going to hunt around for a pre-school bilingual speech therapist...

I better leave you to enjoy some of your evening now.

I'll keep you posted on what happens.

Best of luck and yes, post again.

I'm sure i've heard that often bi-lingual children will speak later due to them working out which language they are thinking in, for instance, an english speaking child will see a ball, think of a ball and say ball. Bi-lingual children will see the ball, then sort out which word they need to use, sometimes giving up due to their perfectly normal need to do things quickly . However, as they get older their understanding is generally better and their vocabulary is far broader.

Hi there,just like to reinforce what everyone else has said. Our children are bilingual(french/english),and our eldest was completely silent until just before his third birthday. He used to communicate in Lassie like grunts and squeaks.I knew that his comprehension was fine, and,although I was concerned,I let time take its course. I know that each child is different,our d.d was much quicker,but then she was the second child and a bit of a nosey parker. I do regret now that his early years were tinged by this concern,so my advice is to enjoy this time now,everything will be fine. Soon she will be correcting your grammar,as d.s is doing at the mo.

Hello,

I just thought I would update you all on what is happening as you have all been so kind to give me your advice and experience.

By the way, pinkhousesare best, I was thinking just over the weekend how much this worry is spoiling my time with my dd at the moment and trying to switch it off, although it is not always that easy....

Anyway, I have found a SALT who specialises in bilingualism and speaks two languages herself and also understands french. We have an appointment booked with her later this month.

Also today, dd said her first three syllable word (very exciting!) It was french for chocolate (i.e. chocolat - although she pronounced chocoat - she cannot say "l" yet). Needless to say, she got a little bit of chocolate as a treat!

By the way, she does not eat that much chocolate - she just likes it a lot!

That's great Tichey, on both fronts.

Hello,

Thanks Moondog. Sorry I have not been on mumsnet for a bit. I have been potty training for the last couple of days. It is not going very well so far : )

DD has not actually said chocolat since she said it about 20 times on that day - typical, but is now starting to put two words together, or at least two syllables e.g ca jau for canard jaunne, so progress I think.... Also doing three words (or syllables) if helped a bit i.e. if I repeat the two words she has first said and wait, she will then say the third one... She can also can now make the "f" and "v" sounds. I am quite excited about that - it means there is only "l" to go!

So I am feeling like things maybe starting to move along...

My dcs are bilingual (Dutch/English). My dd is the better one at speaking, using complicated sentences earlier than her brother and speaking much more clearly, however she was the later one to start speaking. I think she wanted to wait until she could say things properly before she tried, while ds didn't mind muddling things up a bit. Both are now speaking both languages although English is their better language. Funnily enough they tend to speak Dutch to eachother, which is not what I expected considering we live in England and that English is the majority language.
In my experience as a mum and ex-childminder the language abilities of 2yo are very varied. I've met 2yo who talk like adults and others who barely say a word. By the time they reach school age, they are all more or less equal. So I wouldn't worry too much.

I don't have time to read the whole thread, just wanted to add that my dd, now 5, was very late talking in both languages.
She probably started 'chatting' in her native language when she went to nursery, but was still way behind the other kids.
Her english developed slowly after that. My almost 3 dd is showing the same pattern, understands everything in both languages but speaks very little. She does 'chatter' in her own language, which I guess is a mix of the two.
I have never worried about their late speech as was told by a friend who's a linguist that this is totally normal.
HTH

Hi.

My dd is 2.5 and is being brought up bilingually in English and French. She speaks in short phrases and occasionally in sentences in either language, depending who she is speaking to. She has a lovely French accent in English! She is a great climber, with very good gross motor skills and can operate the dvd.

BUT ... she has never once fitted so much as one piece in a jigsaw, no matter how often I show her, she can rarely be bothered to build a tower, only likes two books and those only to go to sleep (and I am a primary teacher ), knows no letters whatsoever and cannot be left with anyone other than me, her father and her grandmother without real hysterics.

I am not worried about the above. I think that children develop different aspects at different times. Try not to worry and try to enjoy your DD. Go and do a puzzle with her!