Mostly for working mums (don't want to start a fight though...)

[janh]

This article is in Guardian Weekend today - by a working mum in New York - titled, roughly, "why am I nice at work and horrible at home?"

www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,908591,00.html

It's a brilliant piece, very entertaining, and should resonate with SAHMs too.

I particularly liked the bit where she asked the 3-yr-old if he wanted to put on his pyjamas in the 6-yr-old's "office"!!!

[Jimjams]

No chance ghosty! Sorry. I answered a tiny ad in the TES a few years ago. At the start there was quite a lot of money and lots of work going, but channel 4 has slowly cut back (they want sponsors) and so there aren't many sessions at the moment (teachers hours have been limited). Being in the chat room I'm quite lucky as I get a session each week as there aren't many of us. Occasionaly they do add subjects, and if they expand I'll post a message here. I don't think it's very likely at the moment.

Where do you live and what do you teach? If you're in the London area I may be able to put you in contact with some people who may be able offer pretty good tuition type work at A level - they're a nice bunch to work for as well. I used to do every Saturday- it was great to get out of the house and be a real person again once a week.

Easter revision was always a good earner as well- and if you had a decent group good fun.

[Philippat]

It was indeed a well-crafted article, but begs the question - if she had time to sit and write an article (presumably not part of her editing job) about the things that are wrong in her life, why hasn't she got time to do something about it?

I love my (full time) job but if I thought I was making dd unhappy, I'd know it would be time for some compromises.

I think the men-with-ovaries thing is a cop-out, personally.

[Cityfreak]

I thought the article was really sad, and also a bit irritating, because yet again they are showing a working mother whose pace is unsustainable in the longterm. In a few years there will be an article about her being burnt out and becoming a SAHM. There is nothing wrong with that, except I think she is living a career extreme now, rather than finding a happy balance which many of us have found. They never seem to show working mothers like me or the ones I know from mumsnet and work, who, unglamorously, forego a promotion, bonus or award here and there, but are still fairly successful at work, and also have time to play on the floor with their kids after work, but not do potato printing every day.

[WideWebWitch]

Philappat, IIRC it wasn't just an article, it was an extract from a book she's written! Could be wrong though.

[WideWebWitch]

Sorry, I was wrong, it was an essay written for a book.

[Philippat]

The review of the book on amazon sounds dreadful - competing with husbands over childcare, the works.

If you do a google search for Kristin van Ogtrop (the article's author), it's fairly clear she has job-hopped a lot in the last few years and is regularly on TV, writing articles, talking to students etc. I think she has some issues she needs to address about what she wants in life, her ability to delegate etc...

However, that doesn't detract from Janh's point about the interesting debate of personality in parenting, but that's nothing to do with working or even mums, really.

[slug]

I know about 3 solo dads, all who are working and looking after their school age children. I can't see any difference in their behaviour to the solo mums I know, they are all capable, organised and interested in their children's lives.

Maybe I've got a vested interest in this as dh recently became a SAHD. When we started, I got the sluglet up in the morning, dressed her, had her lunch in the fridge and fed her when I got home. Now, four months later, I leave for work with the two of them having a morning cuddle over coffee and a bottle. He cooks for her, does the shopping, organises all her doctor's appointments, deals with the household stuff and generally does the 'wife' stuff. Yes, our house is a mess, but he never did any of that before he met me anyway.

I just had to accept that I was letting him get away with only doing the fun stuff and none of the slog when it came to child raising. Every increase in his contribution has been prompted by something that I have done. For example, bathing her used to be my job, but I injured my hand and had it in bandages for several weeks. I had to keep it as dry as possible, so he took over bathing duties and never gave them back. A cluster of migraines has meant that he has had to take over the evening cooking and, as it just becomes part of his routine, he stops the helpless behaviour and just gets on with it.

[janh]

slug, maybe your working single dads are women-without-ovaries!

Of course you're right that if men are left with no alternative but to do certain things then they will have to do them - but still possibly with only half a brian. As your DH no longer has the distraction of a going-out-to-work job he can concentrate more on what needs doing when - sounds as if he needs a bit of coaching in the housework dept though (just because he never did that before either shouldn't let him off doing it now!)

Scummy, thanks for the vote of confidence! (Chinese burns - mmm - never thought of that!) Your parents sound a complete hoot - are they still like that with their grandchildren?

Janeway, it is bloody unfair the way men and women going PT is viewed so differently. Equality? Ha!

[Crunchie]

I found this article in turn sad, but also realistic. There are so many points that I agree with and I feel that I can relate totally to her and her situation.

I work full time, and I don't have a choice I can't cut hours etc as I am the main breadwinner. I did make a career move last year and stopped commuting, so work close to home now, which meant a 30% pay cut in order to spend more time with my kids. However that is not the point here. I find like her, at work I can be dynamic go-getting and organised (unless you look at my desk) where at home I feel myself tense up and get cross at stupid things. I also agree with the 'y' gene for men. My dh would forget the simplest of instructions and it is not 'because I allow him'. Men do not have the type of brain to remember a multitude of things at the same time. My dh is getting better, he can now to a supermarket shop with a list and be trusted to get most of it right, only 2 or 3 phone calls and detailled instructions!

It is sad in a way that I feel sorry for the writer, as I feel sorry for myself sometimes. I wish I could be a clam 'perfect' parent, and I do try. But I can't I have so little time to myself, a fact that I am sure everyone agrees with, therefore I have no switch off time between work and the wingeing in the car. Usually by the time I even get in the front door I have had to tell my kids to shut up, sit down, not scream, yell or whatever else they are doing. So any thoughts of lovely 'quality' time with them is already out of the window, as they have to sit on the step, or whatever. I know it is attention seeking as they have missed me, but I wish they would give me two minutes to put my bag down etc, before the onslaught. Often I find myself putting on the TV so I know that they will be happy for a bit while I get my breath back.

I don't want to feel guilty, bu I do, however I am not my mum, I am me and like everyone, this woman included, I can only do my best. Sorry!

[Philippat]

Sorry, just have to say I TOTALLY disagree with the men-only-coping-with-one-idea thing (although I regularly accuse dh of it! ).

There is absolutely no way they can get away with that in the working world. (Loved Janh's phone call from her dh about the loaves of bread. Would he do that to his boss Janh? I expect he'd have had the initiative to work out what kind of bread the boss expected him to buy and got it without the boss noticing it was needed). I suspect working mothers who are trying to do it all and feeling guilty that they can't manage it have an issue with delegating. (please don't take this personally anyone, lots of smileys ))

[janh]

ooh, Philippa, I have been having this argument with him FOR YEARS!!!! "You wouldn't do that at work"!!!

I suppose I let him get away with it because he is under huge pressure at work and it doesn't stop when he comes home, there are always phone calls and computer systems failing and whatnot, plus he runs an under-15 football team and they take a lot of organising...if he had a nice simple 9-5 switch-off-work-brain job I would expect a bit more!

He has to write things down to remember them - eg he regularly cooks Sunday dinner and he writes down timings for every little thing including eg "peel potatoes", "turn oven on", "take meat out". The problem with shopping for a couple of things, and picking up kids, is that he hasn't written it down - he carries an organiser to and from work stuffed with bits of paper with Things Written Down on them, I think if he lost that he'd have to resign.

(One of his best recent kids' ones was collecting DD2 from band practice - on a Wednesday at 9.30pm. At the time she used to work on Tuesday evenings in Sainsburys until 8.30. One Wednesday he went out to get her and eventually rang me, at about 9pm, from Sainsburys car park, to say they had all come out except DD, where was she? )

He can remember one thing, and sometimes 2, at the supermarket but 3 or more have to be written down and not only that, I can't just put "teabags" or "orange squash", I have to put brand and size and "NOT SUGAR-FREE" or whatever. He really really can't do it by himself! Sad but true.

[sml2]

I think this article makes pretty depressing reading as well. If she does feel guilty that she is cheating her children, why is she making money out of it instead of doing something about it?
The situations that she highlights, such as staying patient when your children jump on a newly made bed, and not caring about vaseline on the carpet are ones that all parents have to face up to, whether they work or not. The question isn't so much "How come I am so short tempered at home when I'm unflappable at the office?" it should be "I realise my parenting style is not good enough, how can I improve it?"

[bells2]

Personally, I would suspect that she actually probably doesn't feel that guilty - she just feels that she should do.

[Ghosty]

This is in reply to jim jams ... nothing to do with the topic (sorry ....)
I am a primary teacher and live in NZ so I couldn't tutor A Level in London ... but thanks for the offer. You have given me an idea though and I will start investigating teaching over the net here in NZ ...

[Jimjams]

ghosty- ooh where in New Zealand? I worked in Dannevirke on a farm (obviously) one summer holiday. My grandmother was from New Zealand and my aunt was living in Auckland at the time. I loved the place.

I've recently bought Nelsons PM readers for ds1- they're great for autistic kids as they mainly use photos. He seems to like them! I like the piccies of NZ.

[pupuce]

Men are a funny breed.
DH was a SAHD for 3 years.... he did everything and without instructions (I still did some housework) but I never had to tell him much... he would just do it. BUT on the days I was at home (working from home) he would say : What is DS having for lunch?
If I wasn't home - he would never ring me at te office to ask... so why was it (and still is) that men just do not USE their brain when we are around?
BTW - I could relate to her story to a great degree... but that is becasue I made some of these observations that I chose to leave that environement and start my own business with a partner that didn't earn any money - Some say it's a big gamble... I just could not see myself raising my kids a few hours a week - it IS a personal choice which we need to make based on one's values and needs...

[pupuce]

Men are a funny breed.
DH was a SAHD for 3 years.... he did everything and without instructions (I still did some housework) but I never had to tell him much... he would just do it. BUT on the days I was at home (working from home) he would say : What is DS having for lunch?
If I wasn't home - he would never ring me at te office to ask... so why was it (and still is) that men just do not USE their brain when we are around?
BTW - I could relate to her story to a great degree... but that is becasue I made some of these observations that I chose to leave that environement and start my own business with a partner that didn't earn any money - Some say it's a big gamble... I just could not see myself raising my kids a few hours a week - it IS a personal choice which we need to make based on one's values and needs...

[Clarinet60]

Y chromosomes stopping men doing several things at once?
Hmm. Doesn't seem to stop them from being air traffic controllers.
Bllcks. Sorry.

[Clarinet60]

Y chromosomes stopping men doing several things at once?
Hmm. Doesn't seem to stop them from being air traffic controllers.
Bllcks. Sorry.

[Bozza]

I was kind of agreeing with JanH about my DH. If I ask him to turn the oven on, load the washing machine etc before I get home in an evening (he gets home first) I have to ring him about 4ish to check that he's not forgotten. I run the social diary for the whole family, remember all birthdays, plan all meals etc. But he can make half a dozen appts to see different clients in an area, fit in paperwork, juggle a couple of meetings if something else comes up etc. and he's even managed to get himself promoted. So I've moved over to the Slug camp. Felt a hint of self-recognition in the PhilipaT working mother (albeit parttime but that probably makes me worse) control-freakery too.