Alcohol as a treat for 11yr old

[mummyflood]

Hi everyone.

I have been shopping with a friend today (supermarket) and she has frankly shocked me with something she bought, would be very interested in your opinions on this.

She has 2 DC's daughter 14 and son 11. Down the booze aisle, she suddenly said 'right, a treat for x', and picked up a 4-pack of cheap lager. X is 11yr old son. She then picked up a 2 litre bottle of cider and said 'I will share this with y', y being 14yr old daughter. I said 'are you serious, x is only 11', thinking she was winding me up, which she said in all seriousness, 'yes, I know, but he only has one once a month and it lasts ages...all night'.

How many of you think its no biggie to give an 11yr old lager as a treat, as its only about once a month, does this come into the area of introducing alcohol in the safety of your own home at this age, would it make a difference if it was made into a shandy, is it me being totally OTT or out of touch with my own kids (14 and 12) - ??!!??

TIA
xxMFxx

[DirtySexyMummy]

Franny - my brothers and sisters and I all grew up in the same house, same environment, with the same parents.

I probably drink the most, but that is purely because I go out the most. I have one brother who doesn't drink because his career is in sport and the rest drink in moderation, at parties or events. I've very rarely seen any of them, including myself, drunk.

[francagoestohollywood]

I think that me and my Italian friends have always been around adults drinking wine (in moderation). I now think that I know only 2 persons who have problems with alcohol as adults. And that is due to loads of reasons

[FrannyandZooey]

oh yes, I certainly do have different opinions about alcohol, and I understand I am going to be more, well, pious about it for want of a better word
and that people don't agree with me about it a lot of the time

I think most people's judgement of whether or not they or other people have a problem with alcohol can be skewed and quite wrong at times
I think most people are judging on whether they show classic signs of alcoholism - eg dependency
I find it strange that it isn't glaringly obvious, that someone who regularly drinks enough to harm their health does have a problem with alcohol
if someone who smokes 20 cigarettes a day, it doesn't really matter whether they're addicted to the nicotine or not, does it? or whether they could give up tomorrow without any difficulty. The fact remains they are using a drug in a way that is going to damage themselves. I would say they had a problem with cigarettes, personally.

[Enid]

agree agree agree

[VictorianSqualor]

Totally agree franny.
If you ever drink enough to think 'Oh, fuck, what did I do/say' or are drinking more than is healthy, you have an alcohol problem.

You don't have to drink often, or even get drunk to have it be a problem.

[Morloth]

Also agree and I think pretty much everyone here agrees that actually buying alcohol as a "treat" for a child is bizarre and wrong.

[DirtySexyMummy]

I regularly drink, yes, it is a 'part' of my job, and therefore I drink what some people consider to be a large amount maybe 2 or 3 times a week. I will have say, a pint or two maybe another day or 2 a week, and on the other days, nothing. Obviously, this varies massively from week to week. Some weeks I will drink nothing all week, other weeks I will drink 'a lot' 4 nights.

I don't think it is fair to say it should be 'glaringly obvious' that I have a problem. I can assure you, I do not!

I think thousands of people use alcohol in a harmful way. The majority of people, probably. The frequency obviously varies. However, I don't think it is fair to make the assumption that because someone does something more frequently than another, it means they necessarily have a problem. Some do, some don't.

[Buda]

Does anyone thing that some people are more prone to addiction generally?

I ask because my youngest sis has just admitted to having a problem with drink. Can drink 2 bottles of wine a night on her own. Her now X-BF had a huge problem with it as his Dad was an alcoholic. Our own father has issues with alcohol. Was talking to Sis1 about Sis3's issues and she commented that our family are addictive type personalities so we have to be careful.

[Enid]

you drink because it is part of your job?
what do you do?

[Buda]

Does anyone 'think' not thing!!

[francagoestohollywood]

a sommelier?

[DirtySexyMummy]

Buda - yes I think some people have naturally more addictive personalities.

Enid - I don't drink because it is part of my job, its quite hard to explain what I mean without giving too much information away which I am very wary of. However, I work in an environment where everyone is drinking, and it is normal behaviour to have a drink. Not everyone is drinking obviously, but it is a social environment, and by and large, most people are drinking.

[Kewcumber]

I wouldn;t "treat" an 11 yr old with alcohol, I would let them have a few sips of wine with a meal (maybe).

I come a long line of alcoholics and no longer drink myself and I'm a pretty good judge of when people have a problme with alcohol. Im my experience its very little to do with volume and sometimes not to do with frequency (although its true that many problme dirnkers have to drink regularly, one of our alcoholics could go wihtout for weeks to prove to himself that he wasn't an alcoholic) - it is always to do with who has the upper hand... you or the alcohol.

That doesn't mean that its healthy to drink too much if you don't have a dependency in the same way as it isn't healthy to eat too many chips even if you're not overweight. (Does that make sense).

I'm all in favour of "normalising" alcohol for chidlren rather than treating it as forbidden but treating them with it does seem a littel odd.

[milkymill]

Yes Buda ,I certainly think you can have a pre-disposition to addiction and I believe it runs in my family.

[Kewcumber]

yse buda I think so too - every one of me and my siblings have an addiction to something (Its why I gave up alcohol, I decided my body could only cope with one addiction at a time and I was fast heading for an alcohol one as well as a food one).

[FrannyandZooey]

DSM please don't get me totally the wrong way
I don't think there is anything wrong or immoral or stupid about your drinking
I do stuff that is harmful to my health (I don't really know anyone who doesn't, at times) and I have what could definitely be described as 'problems' with things - I'm addicted to the internet, for a start

I'm not saying you should change your life or stop drinking or that you're in a mess or in danger or anything like that

but I do have to disagree with you on this thread where you specifically say your parents' drinking never affected you as you have no issues with alcohol, and that other people can safely do as you and your parents do because it will have no effect on their children
I really disagree on that particular point, you see

[DirtySexyMummy]

But franny - I do think my parents' drinking never affected me, as I don't have issues with alcohol.

I never suggested that other people can safely do as I do, and my parents do because it will have no effect on their children. I suggested that they could, as it seems that the way people are brought up does not necessarily have a direct influence on their relationship with alcohol.

Some people have alcoholic parents and become alcoholics
Some people have alcoholic parents and don't become alcoholics
Some people have non-alcoholic parents and become alcoholics
Some people have non-alcoholic parents and don't become alcoholics

[Morloth]

Yes Buda I do think some people are more prone to addictions than others.

[Enid]

I'd say being in a job where the culture is to booze, and not being able to not drink with work even if you want to is a pretty big issue tbh

I cant think of anywhere you HAVE to drink

even friends in the city or in big engineering firms dont seem to drink that much

[Enid]

are you a stripper? [interested]

[DirtySexyMummy]

Enid - I did point out that, quite obviously, I don't have to drink at work.

But most people are, and quite a lot of the time I do too, as I enjoy it. Not all the time, and there are always people who are not drinking, particularly as some drive.

Have NO idea what your engineering comment is about, BTW!

[Enid]

sorry the engineering was trying to guess what kind of culture you worked in - maybe laddisha nd blokey

[mummyflood]

I have found the replies, opinions and experiences on here really interesting. As very occasional drinkers ourselves, our 2 boys have never really had much involvement with alcohol, (they are 12 and 14 btw), except at family gatherings a few times a year.

I think Cappucinno has pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. The alcohol was specifically being bought for the kids - they were not being invited to share in something the family was having, and 'its giving your kids what you think they want rather than treating them as a real member of the family...etc.' - exactly, perfectly put. This is what my friend seems to do increasingly - pre-empt all the 'growing up' and suggest it/implement it with her kids before they even ask or suggest - girlfriends for DS from about 8, (not talking female friends btw, serious discussions about x's girlfriend, he's going out with so and so, he's dumped so and so, at that age) belly button piercing for DD at 11/12, telling DD prior to starting High School that she 'fully expected her to try smoking, thats what they do at your age', I could go on but as I'm typing this it reminds me of the completely different parenting styles we have, and exactly how far out of step she is with myself and most of my other friends with kids of a similar age. I often think that childhood is in danger of passing her kids by to some degree, and I have this mental picture of her with both hands behind their backs, pushing them along for all the wrong reasons IMO. AS you may imagine, we have had many a lengthy 'chat' on parenting/20th century attitudes, etc.!!

[VictorianSqualor]

I know what DSM does, so can understand what she is saying.
She works in an environment very much a part of the social scene and as such many people will be drinking alcohol around her, and she will be offered it a lot.
Almost like a holiday rep on 18-30 holidays would be.

[wonderstuff]

A friends 11yo got invited to a 12th birthday party and the mum was handing out alcopop!! Shocking thing is that the mum hadn't asked any of the other mums if this was ok first! World is going mad imo