Alcohol as a treat for 11yr old

[mummyflood]

Hi everyone.

I have been shopping with a friend today (supermarket) and she has frankly shocked me with something she bought, would be very interested in your opinions on this.

She has 2 DC's daughter 14 and son 11. Down the booze aisle, she suddenly said 'right, a treat for x', and picked up a 4-pack of cheap lager. X is 11yr old son. She then picked up a 2 litre bottle of cider and said 'I will share this with y', y being 14yr old daughter. I said 'are you serious, x is only 11', thinking she was winding me up, which she said in all seriousness, 'yes, I know, but he only has one once a month and it lasts ages...all night'.

How many of you think its no biggie to give an 11yr old lager as a treat, as its only about once a month, does this come into the area of introducing alcohol in the safety of your own home at this age, would it make a difference if it was made into a shandy, is it me being totally OTT or out of touch with my own kids (14 and 12) - ??!!??

TIA
xxMFxx

[VictorianSqualor]

I was surprised at how many occasions people could make about alcohol when I was with XP tbh.
I held a party for DD's third birthday at a restaurant, only for all the parents to disappear to the bar
I was talking about where I'm going to have the reception for DS2's christening with MiL (my new partner's mother, totally different values wrt alcohol) and said about a village hall that we had just found out had a bar, but if everyone was going to be driving that we may as well just get some soft drinks or something.
I had a slight chuckle to myself about how XP's family would have reacted to that!

[DevilwearsPrada]

I let DSD drink when ever I drink (not all that often) at home, usually 2 or 3 drinks (usually beer) but she is nearly 16. I think getting an 11 year old beer as a treat once a month is quite wrong. Nothing wrong with a taste every now and then or 1 glass ona special occasion but that doesn't sound right to me.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

dh did the alcohol thing from about 14 til he turned 18 - he then got a motorbike and was sober because of riding the bike, and he has never really found the taste "enjoyable"

I used to enjoy going out and having a good few drinks with friends, but then met DH and obviously he was tee total so I stopped drinking, esp as all my friends went off to Uni.

The last time I had a "proper" drink was at my 21st birthday party, other than that I have had an odd glass of wine here and there, at my wedding and at Xmas, but to be honest, now I just dont bother.

I know that obviously when dd is older, I dont want alcohol to be something that is magical and intriguing, but by not having it in the home, it should reduce her exposure, and hopefully she'll be like me & DH and really just not interested in it at all.

[WideWebWitch]

I don't get alcohol at childrens parties either, they're in the day, they're for children.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

neither DH or I drink at all so you would imagine how impressed we'd be if somebody let our two year old have a sip of alcohol!!

[WideWebWitch]

Completely inappropriate to buy alcohol for an 11yo imo. Ds is 10yrs 8months and it would no more occur to me to buy him beer than it would to score him some crack.

[FrannyandZooey]

llareggub I agree you see things differently (IMO more clearly) once you stop drinking
people's attitudes to alcohol are often so skewed
I do accept mine is probably skewed the other way
but we've got a strange and unhealthy alcohol culture in this country - I think this can be the reason why the so called continental approach backfires sometimes - we HAVEN'T got a healthy and relaxed attitude to alcohol here in the UK, and trying to create one in your own home may not be enough to combat that

[llareggub]

Actually, one thing DH have noticed now that we don't drink is how most people can't bring themselves to celebrate anything without alcohol. We recently went to a party for a 2 year old which was heaving with alcohol and hardly any soft drinks at all.

[noddyholder]

Having a sip of something watered down and already in the house is not the same as buying especially for children and considering it a treat.Shocking

[llareggub]

My DH is an alcoholic and we are both teetotal. I know enough now about alcohol abuse to know that I came very close to an alcohol problem myself.

I am explaining this because up until several years ago, when my husband admitted he had a problem with alcohol, we were both very much of the view that the earlier children try alcohol, the less likely they were to develop a problem.

I think now that that attitude is flawed. My parents and parents in law both had that attitude, and frankly I think they used it to justify their own drinking. My mother would frequently share a bottle of barcardi with me in my teens, and I don't mean the breezer stuff. As a result, I was a hard drinking teen and this continued into my twenties. I believe I had a very skewed idea of what moderate intake is.

Sure, not everyone will become an alcoholic but you don't need to give children alcohol to teach them that too much is bad. After all, no one is going to teach safe drug use by giving limited amounts of coke, are they?

[cory]

I don't think parents have any sort of duty to provide their children with sips of wine because "otherwise it will become the forbidden fruit". We never had sips of wine, but then there was no wine in the house, because my parents simply weren't interested. There were also no baked beans, no scrambled eggs and no aubergines, but I have managed to grow up with a healthy attitude towards all those things. Different families do things differently.

Dh's family on the other hand drank enthusiastically (though no alcohol problems as such- strong constitutions!), and were eager for the day when dh could join them (FIL most disappointed when teenage dh asked for Coke instead of bitter), but he also drinks in great moderation and is not terribly interested.

We allow sips, but alcohol is a very small part of our lives; we could happily do without it altogether. I wouldn't be surprised if this third approach also produces children with a distant relationship to alcohol.

I think in dh's and my case it's mainly about having so many other, more active interests that we'd rather spend time and money on.

[francagoestohollywood]

MadamePlatypus, unfortunately also in Italy there's been an increase in the number of binge-drinking teenagers, which brings all sorts of sociological problems.
The model of drinking moderately at mealtimes and learn how to "taste" and appreciate your wines doesn't seem to work perfectly anymore (if it ever worked, there are areas in Italy where alcoholism has always been a problem, for instance in the - once - impoverished valleys of Trentino) . Mind you, I'd feel personally humiliated if my children drank alcopops .

I tend to think that there are lots of factors that shape one's attitude towards alcohol. Of course parents' extreme drinking is/can be one of those. But peer pressure is huge as well. This is where our ability of educating our children to value and treasure their individuality becomes rather important imo.

[FrannyandZooey]

Hedge, I think children are very generally speaking more likely to follow the same sex role model

but we can't predict exactly what effect our behaviour is going to have on our children, only that it WILL have an effect

I know children of alcoholics who never drink, ever
what they witnessed while growing up put them off for life

[ELR]

i let dd who is 5 have about 2 tblspoons of beer or wine watered down loads, occasionally
a whole can for an 11 year old is alot i think

[MadamePlatypus]

Completely agree with what franny and enid and VS have said. It is possible that you can live your life as though a day is not complete without a drink, as though a bad day at work, a good day at work, your team loosing at football, your team winning at football, the sun being out, it raining, spending a day with children, having a weekend without the children, are all excuses for a few drinks - and they will not pick up on the idea that any emotion needs to be tempered with alcohol. I don't think its likely though.

I am interested in CrushwithEyeliners' point. I think that Italian's teach their children to be obsessed with the taste of food and to a small extent drinking wine is part of that - I don't think they teach their children to drink and certainly not dodgy alcopops. I used to work for an Italian company. There were regular discussions about what was planned for the evening meal and where to buy courgette flowers, but very little lunchtime drinking amongst the Italians (compared to the Brits who regularly downed a couple of pints and then more for the journey home). I don't think any of the Italians I worked with had dodgy 'post lunch' reputations. This wasn't because they 'drank sensibly' at lunchtime - it was because they didn't drink at all.

[nkf]

I'm shocked actually.

[FrannyandZooey]

LOL at DSM as stripper or 18 - 30 rep

"Some people have alcoholic parents and become alcoholics
Some people have alcoholic parents and don't become alcoholics
Some people have non-alcoholic parents and become alcoholics
Some people have non-alcoholic parents and don't become alcoholics"

yes, sure, I agree all of these can be true. However it is far more likely that your relationship with alcohol will have a direct and long lasting effect on your children. I think denying that our parents' relationship with alcohol has any effect on our own is really a mistake, and telling people on this thread that it doesn't matter what they do wrt to alcohol and their children is IMO irresponsible

[sexandthecitylover]

No would never buy lager for my 11 nearly 12 year old. So far he hasn't shown interest but would allow him a sip plus diluted wine.

Though my dad took me to pub from age 13 and used to buy me cider. He says he didn't realise it was alcohol.

And from age 13 it was de rigeur to have parties (I went to school with posh kids) with cider provided by parents.

From that it was a natural step to go the pub from age 15, drinking (with all types of kids) and my social life revolved around that til about age 26 when I moved away from the provinces. That drinking culture is so heavily ingrained in British society.

[branflake81]

Actually I am not convinvced that how you are raised has a bearing on your attitude to alcohol as an adult.

My parents drank wine with every meal and although never got drunk did drink fairly freqently.

My sister drinks a lot and I am tee total. I just have no interest in it.

[TodayToday]

"I think your own attitude to alcohol and your drinking habits are the most important thing in predicting your child's future relationship with alcohol
if they see you using alcohol as a crutch, if they see you binge drinking, if they see you drinking most nights (even in moderation), if they see you using alcohol to cope with pain or stress, if they see you unable to have fun at a party without drinking - these are all going to give strong messages to your children and affect their attitudes for the rest of their life"

ITA with what you siad here Franny. I grew up in a family where a lot of social binge drinking took place. I was a services child. My parents allowed us to have watered down wine as part of a civilised meal from around age 14 but I feel being exposed to social binge drinking had more of an impact and whether my parents had allowed us that watered down wine or not, would have made little difference to our attitudes. We got the binge drinking habit from them and still have it.

I'm more keen on setting my children a good example and minimising our alcohol intake when around them (especially as they get older and more aware) rather than indulging them to justify our own habits.

[cmotdibbler]

My mother would have grounded me forever !

Sausage inna bun ?

[Morloth]

Not at all dibbler - that sort of behavious is crazy - I can't imagine MY mother's reaction if we had behaved like that! As for the 12yr old's mother giving alcopops to other kids I would be LIVID and would consider calling the police.

Though possibly you could sell him some pies? ;)

[cmotdibbler]

My SILs buy Bacardi breezers for the 16 and 15 year olds - 15 yr old has 2 every Friday and Saturday and recently was caught out stealing wine and vodka to drink on other days. Is described as being drunk on a frequent basis. This week he was bought alcohol in a pub for a family party 'to relax him' as was his 13 year old brother. Don't know how much the 13 year old drinks, but certainly whenever we see them in the evenings, he and his other 13 year old cousin drink some cider.

DH and I are horrified by this, and do not intend to let them drink in our house (subject hasn't arisen yet). Are we unreasonable ?

[Bluebutterfly]

Have not read the rest of this thread, but I think that possibly a person who thinks buying cans of lager as a treat for their 11 year old js ok, may have some issues with alcohol. Could she be trying to "normalise" it with her children so that she can get away with getting plastered herself on a regular basis?

Would not have a problem with a little bit of watered down wine or a very small glass of lager with a meal for a teenager, but drinking for the sake of it with your 11 year old child seems like a poor parenting decision to say the least.