Unsupervised time at school

[Outdoorsymum89]

Just feeling like I need a little bit of clarity on a situation here!
I have 2 primary age children who are 7 and 5.
Basically, when my children get the school bus, they are dropped off at school 20 mins before school officially begins. In this 20 mins they are unsupervised on the playground! I have brought it up with the transport company and they said it’s the School’s responsibility to care for the children when they reach School. School say it’s not their responsibility because they don’t open until 9 but reassure me that if there’s an issue, the older children are great at telling them and they’re willing to deal with incidents.

I found this very concerning and for the time being, have stopped sending them on the bus.

When I brought this up with the other parents, I basically raised my concern and said I wanted the parent council to do something about this. However I am absolutely disgusted with how the parent forum have reacted! They all seem to think it’s not a massive problem and that we should be thankful our children are in a safe community where they can do this!
I had people basically say I was acting entitled and if I don’t like it I should go and look after them myself! Other parents said it was just like the kids playing in the garden while they’re cooking tea!
They don’t want me pushing the situation because they feel the staff are great and I should be happy to let them have time preparing their lessons rather than stand on the playground!

I am horrified with the situation, because now I am questioning the community values of the community in which I live! As far as I am concerned leaving children in a school setting, unsupervised for 20 mins at the start of every day is a huge safeguarding and child protection concern! I am now considering changing schools because I feel like I have upset everyone so much for bringing this up!

Am I being over sensitive here?

Ooh that's tricky.
In lots of places leaving children 'unsupervised' in the playground before school is a big NO so i see where you are coming from.
However if this is a small community and the elder children are used to and accept keeping an eye on the little ones - a big family feel, and it has worked for years then i can see why other parents are happy and want to keep the status quo.
Howe secure is the playground and how busy is the road outside?
How many children are we talking about?
Is this small rural where most children come by bus?
Or a 3 form entry in a town?

Working in a school this is a safeguarding concern. It's fine until it isn't. Of course they should be supervised.

No I don’t think that’s ok. Fine for older ones age 10 and up, but not for the younger children and especially not age 5. Anything could happen and an adult wouldn’t know. The older children are watching out but they don’t have responsibility and shouldn’t.

Are there teachers/staff on site, just not in the playground? Or is there no one on site at all?

Are the school gates open so anyone could come and go?

I'm on the fence and I think it would depend on the situation. But my instinct is saying it feels a bit risky

At our primary school the children had to stay seated on the bus if they were early and then let in at around 10 to 9 am when the school opened its doors.

These days most schools have a soft start - at mine, our doors open at 8.45 but we don’t officially start until 9. Our gets don’t open until 8.45.

This is tricky as I can see the point of both the bus company and the school.

I think both the transport company and the school are in the wrong.

My DCs are early 20s so the youngest finished primary about 10 years ago. While my DCs were at primary school, the school changed their policy. They kept the gates locked until 10 minutes before the bell went because they didn't want to be responsible for the children before that time. Before they started this locked gate policy, some parents used to leave their kids in the playground 20
Or 30 minutes before the start of school and disappear off to work.

Are you in England?

It's made very clear to parents at my school that we do not supervise children in the playground before school. If they want childcare in the morning they need to pay for breakfast club.
The issue is with the bus timings I would say.

You are absolutely right. This is a safeguarding concern. You cannot have unsupervised 5 year olds in the playgroud and they are not the responsibility of the year 6s! If this is a rural school (sounds like it), and it is common for children to be bussed to school, then the school needs to facilitate either a slow start (usually 8:30 in my area) or have bussed-in children in breakfast club. I don't really understand the school bus system (only for SEND children in my neck of the woods) but it seems very uncongruent for school transport to be dropping young children so early before school and expecting them to fed for themselves.

Who organises the transport? If it's the LA because you live far enough from all primaries that they must provide transport then I would approach them. The obviously solution is that the travel company pick the kids up 20 mins later.

Back in the 80's when I was growing up it was normal for parents to just drop you at the gate and there was a sort of informal play time until someone blew the whistle. I don't recall anyone being on duty but maybe they were. I don't recall parents being in the playground. As a parent I would not be happy with a 5 and 7 year old being left unsupervised for 20 mins in a playground and can see why you are upset.

At my kid's school gates open at 8.35 and they go straight into their classrooms - no playing in the playground before school. I am very surprised that the kids are let off the school bus into a playground without any adults in it. FWIW I think both the bus driver and the school are at fault, because if you've got temporary care of a child I think you have to transfer them to another responsible adult. So if a child is left at school and not picked up and neither parent nor an adult authorised by parents will come, the school staff have to transfer them to social services or the police. They absolutely cannot just (for example) leave them in the school or playground overnight with an older child!

We had exactly the same issue. My kids were expected to cross the (very quiet) road and go into the school grounds themselves.
I spoke to the school and they brought them into Before School club.

What part of the uk are you in? I ask because this is far more usual in Scotland where children attend their local school and it’s more usual to drop children in the playground rather than see them right into school and for children to walk themselves from a younger age.

5 seems too young for that to me, bus driver should be handing over directly to a teacher when they're that young. I would ask the school who bears responsibility if a child is injured during this time.

My DC had this.

the school in our village had been shut and as part of the agreement there was a minibus to and from the school in the next village.

dc usually arrived and played on the playground. The playground was enclosed though.

I just told them not to go outside the school gates.

this was from age 4.

Does the school offer a (paid for) breakfast club? I guess not? If they do, I’d pay for my child to go to that, even if only 20 mins.

Are they secure or can anyone wonder in to the playground? Sounds like a safeguarding concern to me and I wouldn’t like it either. My dc is at a 3 form entry in a town so I either drop her at breakfast club (staff member on the door, lets them in individually. It’s ran by TA’s who are paid extra time by the parents) or if at the normal time, there is a member of staff on each gate. It may well be very different in small schools.

God this was such a non-issue in the 90s that it never actually occurred to me when my eldest joined P1 that I couldn’t drop them at 8.40 and go to work 🫤 thankfully had breakfast club though.

The transport company shouldn't be dropping primary-aged children to school when it is not open so you should challenge them or the LA on this if it is council-funded. If it's a private arrangement that's a bit more tricky. If there is a breakfast club that is the obvious solution.

I’d be uncomfortable with it for young children too, but your choices include not using the bus service. If this unsupervised time is before school opens, it is your responsibility, not theirs. The transport service will be run by the council, not the school so if you have a problem either take it up with them, or don’t make use of their free service.

Our breakfast club kicks them into the playground unsupervised from age 7 to line up and I wasn’t happy about that (!) this feels like an accident waiting to happen imo.
I don’t think you are wrong OP but I do agree you are at risk of loosing the bus service if you formally complain. I wouldn’t use it because my child has SEN, what about those children or others who aren’t able to safely amuse themselves for 20 minutes?

I would contact bus company and saying driver is leaving children alone before staff are there - if driver is early they should wait on the bus until school staff appear

You could call the LADO at your council to discuss

I was going to ask you where you are based to see where this safe area is, but I don’t want to alert any local paedos to u supervised kids