4year olds behaviour

[Paul2023]

Hi -some advice from anyone. Myself and DE have two children. One ten year old girl and a four year old boy.
Myself and DW are struggling with DS who is five in a few months. His behaviour in the morning in particular has become horrible recently. He doesn’t want to get up for school, it’s a battle to get him dressed , brushing his teeth is a battle, aswell as him eating breakfast.

When he has a tantrum, including this morning when he got up for school, he says things like ‘you’re the worst mum ever, I don’t like you , I hate you. Stop being rude..

Really nasty comments and I don’t know where he gets it from. I’ve just done a night shift and got home. DW is struggling and was almost in tears this morning, not for the first time.

He is in reception, one of the youngest. He doesn’t seem to have these issues at school, the teacher hasn’t said anything atleast.

The other night he was rude and just quite horrible, he was sent to bed without a story. I tried to explain to him a little while after that he was being unkind and that he should say sorry to mummy. He refused, I then had to go to work for the night.

He said sorry the next morning and was completely fine, did everything he was asked.

But this morning, had the poor behaviour again. Our DD who’s ten wasn’t like this, I really don’t know what we can do.

Is this a horrible phase , will it ever pass? Anyone got any advice ?

Well DW actually came home from work early today as she was that upset. Her boss sent her home after hearing what happened and seeing that she wasn’t really up to it today.

Im up early working tomorrow morning so unfortunately can’t be there in the morning so I can’t support DW tomorrow morning.

Meanwhile she’s looking at contacting SEN for guidance. Obviously these things take time. Meanwhile Im worried about DS and DW.

Are you sure there isn't anything going on for him at school? Have you asked the teachers? Might be some issues with friends/ bullying? Something coming up at school he's worried about (sports day??)...

But, in the kindest way possible, this sounds like a DW issue rather than a DS issue. His behaviour is relatively normal. Especially at the end of the school year. If she's so upset by him being difficult that she has to come home from work then either his behaviour is far far worse than you've described, or she's just generally not in a great place and isn't coping well. If it's the latter, can you take a day or two off work so she can have a break?

If that's not possible, can she avoid getting into battles-of-wills with him? Which is what it sounds like is happening. Sometimes turning things around. If he says 'I hate you Mummy', can she say 'Well I LOVE you and nothing you ever say or do will change that. Are you worried that I don't love you?' Because often their hurtful words are hiding their biggest fears.

Sounds really tough on both of you. A few thoughts which might help.

Has the morning pattern always been the same, with her getting him ready, you coming home, her leaving and then you taking him?

Is he getting quality time with mummy when she's not chivvying him to get ready? I'm not sure taking away bedtime story is the way to go as that's an opportunity to have that time.

I think he's very young to be having playdates after school. That time after school is the window for a golden hour of quality time. Particularly if he's young in his school year, and also a premmie, that's your best window for developmentally stimulating play.

I would be considering getting him to bed a little earlier and then getting him up a little earlier as he may then feel less rushed in the morning. Even a 15-20 minute shift may help him wake up slower and have some nice time with your DW in the morning to read a book or do some quiet play before the inevitable breakfast-clothes-teeth-shoes nagging has to start.

Is he getting good sleep at the moment (room cool enough, blackout curtains)?

The school run is done by myself or DW, but she’s around every morning as she works local and goes straight from the school run. If I’m home , I will sometimes do it so she’s not doing the school run every day.

We live in a cul de sac- there’s two other little boys who are neighbours. They often play from end of school until 5.30 ish. DS is the oldest , the other two boys are at nursery but only slightly younger.
The other mums sit outside and chat- it’s kind of a social thing too.
I think maybe we need to curb the outside play with the neighbours, maybe limit to one hours then have dinner slightly earlier , the bed. I wonder if the school day and then following the outside play time is a making him tired.

We always do story time , whether it’s me or DW. If I’m home I’ll usually do it.

We really need to sort out the mornings with DS, it’s awful most of the time with the refusing to get ready and brushing his teeth, as I said before.

We’ve tried reward charts before maybe we need to try again. DWs mum had a stroke a few years ago unexpectedly, she’s
not in best of health and I know it’s been hard on DW seeing her mum like this.

DS’ recent behaviour has been the the thing to really push her she admitted.

This as I said is a recent thing, he’s always been a bit trying , but certainly in the last few weeks, since summer really, that his morning behaviour has been horrible.

This sounds horrible but at times the only thing that works for me is to to threaten to take away something he enjoys. E.g. kids little but daily screen time. If ds refuses to get ready in the morning then no screen time for that day. If he continues to refuse, no screen time for rhe next 2 days. So I say I'm going to count to 3 and if you don't let me brush your teeth then there won't be any vides today. That usually works though of course in terms of development etc it doesn't teach him much except that he has to listen because I've got the power to take away things he likes. Sometimes that's the only thing that works.

Another thing that works is to say that if he won't let me brush his teeth he will have go to school stinky and no one will Want to go close to him. Again, not something I'd use if I wasn't desperate but so far it has worked. I'd never go more than a day though.

Having said that I also don't think your son's behaviour sounds so abnormal.unless I am missing something. Don't they all hate getting ready in the morning and make a big fuss? Could it be that he is tired? Does he get enough sleep? Is there enough time in the morning? Is your wife fully ready herself so she csn focus on just ds?

How do ds and dd get along? If they generally get along well and if there is enough time in the morning, our ds loves it when dd gets him ready. They hide in the bathroom (i leave their clothes outside the bathroom door) and I pretend that I'm looking for ds and I pretend that I'm getting worked up that he isn't getting ready. And then he jumps out all ready and I act all stunned and super happy of course. They both love that. Sometimes that also works with just ds but he needs to be in a good if it's just him.

I really recommend two books:

How to talk so little kids listen by joanna Faber

It's ok not to share by Heather Shumaker

They have got tons of ideas on how to get little kids to cooperate in a playful way.

Thanks I’ve just ordered the book how to talk to little kids so they’ll listen

So he’s five now and I thought we turned a corner but was horrible this morning. I’ve just come home from a night shift and DS was eating breakfast at the table.
He refused to get up initially and had a 15 minute tantrum about getting dressed. I came home after this.

DW has just left for the school run and he was yelling he didn’t want to go to school he wanted to play.

It’s been very stressful for her. We’ve spoken to his school about how we think he maybe struggling with his writing , they will see how he gets on this term and form a learning plan if he need support.

But it’s his behaviour at home. Your’e stupid , go away, I don’t like you are the common phrases he is using.

Is there anyway out of this ?

thought we’d turned a corner but was horrible this morning

It’s one morning. Kids will have rough mornings from time to time. Maybe he’s tired, coming down with a bug, worried about something at school - it happens.

One thing I've discovered is that you and your DW need to set the tone and remind yourselves that it is your job to teach him how to navigate and respond to these big emotions he is feeling. If he calls your stupid etc just say calmly to him, "it's not nice to call someone stupid, that makes me feel sad, you are not allowed to call anyone stupid" and then I would then add to it, "it can see you dont want to get dressed and you are angry about that....but you still need to get dressed. When you have finished your breakfast it is time to get dressed." If he complains just repeat, "when you have finished your breakfast, it is time to get dressed." Dont engage with the tantrum and keep calm. You could also try asking him if you can help him to get dressed and then if this doesn't work try and find out why he finds it so difficult - is it the time constraints? Would he prefer getting dressed before breakfast? Does he need a 5 minute break in between breakfast and getting dressed? Would a clear time table with a timer help? If something isnt working try changing it up so it works easier for everyone.

Ps the worst thing you can do is show your anger to a young child. Grit your teeth and give the impression of remaining calm.

Just back home from another night shift. Dear son refused to get dressed saying he’s tired.. my wife tried reasoning with him but he just wouldn’t cooperate.

He’s only just got dressed now I’m home and dear wife is holding back tears and gone upstairs.

Please what can we do , we’re coming to breaking point!

Ps he seems fine once he’s there.

Not a single off really, he’s been playing up recently more often

Could you offer to help him? Give him a hug? Tell him everything will be ok?