Speech delayed 4 year old and reading

[sunshinedaises]

My ds is starting school in September so it has got me thinking about his learning. He didn't start talking until just before 4 so he is still very behind with his speech and I still struggle to understand a lot of what he says. Nursery have said they don't want to teach him phonics yet as he can't talk properly. What will happen when he starts school? Can I try to encourage reading now or should I wait until he can speak properly?

Have you involved speech and language therapy? My DS had quite a bad speech disorder when he started school and had their input which really helped him and he caught up quite quickly.

@KurtCobainLover he had someone from SaLT come to his nursery to show the teachers how to talk and help him but that was a few months ago and they don't plan on seeing him again.

Go back to your GP or your health visitor and express your concerns. You need to advocate for his needs. The quicker he gets the help he needs, the better outcome.

OP, I wouldn’t try to get him reading - what I would do is read a lot to him, and get him to talk about what you’ve read to help improve his language skills. When he starts school, he won’t be the only child that can’t do phonics. Has anyone suggested speech therapy for him? If not, I’d start finding out what might be available.

@tostaky It has been a battle since he was 2 years old, believe me I have tried so much. It took a year and a half to first get seen and then nearly a year later to get seen again

@sesquipedalian thank you. We read every night and he has just started asking lots of questions about what he see's in the books so I will carry on with that. He has has speech therapy but it hasn't been too helpful unfortunately

Read to him but let school pA friend had this and even considered differing. They let him go to school regardless and the school has been supportive. He is much improved now with speech and is within expected range with reading. Keep talking with school and gp

You can self refer to speech and language - nursery should be able to help you if you can't find the information yourself. I'd also recommend asking your GP for an audiology referral to check his hearing.

My daughter's 6 now and was a late talker. She was referred to speech and language and audiology at 4 and diagnosed with glue ear and a speech sounds disorder, likely resulting from the glue ear (she doesn't hear everything properly).

2 years on and she's completed a 6 month intensive speech sounds programme through our local speech and language team and is speaking so much better. Her hearing still isn't perfect - the glue ear has resolved on one side but she has mild hearing loss on the other - so she sometimes struggles in class, but her teachers are aware and very conscious of helping her so she gets a fair bit of 1-2-1 support to make sure she's heard and understood what she needs to be doing.

She struggled with phonics as she couldn't hear the sounds properly so wasn't replicating them correctly. Her Reception teacher was hopeless and kept trying to make her learn as standard but her Year 1 teacher has been exceptional, embraced the SALT recommendations and she is now reading at "greater depth".

Good luck and hope this helps

Have you considered private speech therapy? I know it’s expensive but it could really help to do it weekly with the same therapist each time. But don’t worry about the phonics. Loads of kids don’t engage with it at nursery, for a whole host of reasons, but are fine later. My DD never really got phonics and was slow to start reading but by age 7 had caught up to be at the expected level for her age.

Has their hearing been checked? That must be done if it hasn’t already. Try not to panic. My son has global delay (everything happened but way later than the red book suggested it should) and additional speech delay on top of that as he had glue ear. He’s flying now he’s in his teens. I was so worried about him starting school. The school were amazing and we did have NHS and private speech therapy that school kindly let go in once a week each. I’m not sure it did much other than stress him out and wouldn’t have done the private speech therapy if I had time again. He was diagnosed with dyslexia later on and the person who tested him then (who had background in speech therapy) said that for him traditional speech therapy was like trying to ice a cake that hadn’t finishing baking. His brain was basically developing in an atypical order. Some parts has shot ahead and some hadn’t finished developing yet. All the best.

@StEmillion thank you. He has had his hearing checked and all came back fine. Did school arrange for speech therapy to go in? This would be very useful for my ds. He did have nursery plus at nursery but that has just stopped.

My son (now 16) had a speech delay, sounds similar to your son. He had a few years of intermittent speech therapy. He’s very bright and articulate now, just wanted to tell you that as it is worrying but things will get better with time. He reads lots, get him looking at anything, comic books, whatever peaks his interest. We are in ROI and he got a lot of help through the health service, I don’t know what the setup is with NHS but i would hope he will be eligible for speech therapy? 🙏🏻

My ds had a speech delay - maybe not quite as severe but really got very muddled (limited vocab, words coming out in wrong order, missing or “swallowing” first syllable or consonant sound of many words, couldn’t cope with tenses etc)

I couldn’t get anyone to help me so I tackled myself.

lots of singing and rhyming if possible - my dc resisted but we found songs he likes eg Yellow Submarine and Bob the Builder

keep your own speech very simple and make sure you maintain eye contact when you converse. Sometimes, when dc is not tired, ask dc to concentrate on what you are saying carefully and repeat what you have said. Or when you ask a question ask dc to try again when you don’t understand the reply. It is okay to smile and say to dc “I think I understood but please could you try saying that again and really think about your words.”

then repeat back to dc very slowly what is the correct pronunciation and grammar

tbh this didn’t really help with ds but it is recommended and can’t hurt.

Focus on one or two words or sounds for a few weeks - ask dc to look at your mouth while you say the word , get dc to then say it along with you, then ask dc to try alone. If that is hopeless just make the shape of the sound quite exaggerated so you show him how to get mouth in the right shape and see if he can copy. Keep it relaxed.

Remember certain sounds are often very late to arrive - dc still struggles with “th” and “y” (age 6.5). You can get a list of sounds that kids struggle with online so you know which ones really aren’t worth pushing yet.

regarding reading: I found it was absolutely unrelated to speech with ds, really weird! He learned the letters and he can read
well now. Sometimes sounding out words phonetically helps! As it actually reinforces what a word sounds like and also breaks bad habits eg my ds always said “acause” “afore” instead of because and before. That gets fixed when you read!

don’t lose hope

I wanted to add - my ds found it extremely annoying to be “corrected” but you must gently persist when you can tell the habit is just becomin a lazy one (because YOU understand but no one else will).
. In year 1 we explained he is becoming a big boy so now he has to try and learn to say his words more carefully so he will have more fun at school.

do not rush in to correct though. Always give dc plenty of time to talk. If it goes wrong often dc knows and it becomes embarrassing and frustrating. My ds got told he was stupid by some horrid little girls on a regular basis. He regularly told me in Reception he is rubbish and stupid and I must hate him for being stupid. It is heartbreaking. So you need to work hugely on self esteem and finding ways for dc to feel they aren’t a dimwit.

at nearly the end of year 1 most of the problems are well in hand - now we have to work on vocabulary and understanding, and also being able to handle longer sentences and more complex ideas which is miles behind where it should be.

But it’s a work in progress and he is much happier and has learned a lot of resilience so not a disaster!

We’re in a very rural area so village school was small and very accommodation. Ofher friends in similar sized schools didn’t have anywhere near the same level of accommodation. Everyone always commented on how lovely our school was.

We asked school as therapist said best to do in school if they can (I assume fits it into their working day) and they said yes. So I passed their details onto the speech therapist. School even arranged for a TA to sit in and observe so they knew how to implement the strategies in class.

I would have a word with the school and get their advice and see what they can offer in school and if they have any recommendations for you in the months leading up to the start of school.

My daughter is in reception at an enhanced resources school so I don't know how much that impacts this but phonics is taught is now small groups, not sure if this was the case from the start or just as the year has gone on with potential divergence in learning speeds There are kids that have additional needs and are learning at their pace and they have a speech and language therapist that comes to the school. In her first term we were asked to give consent for her to see our daughter should the teachers deem it necessary. It hasn't been necessary but reassuring that it was something proactively available.

Hearing has much more impact on his ability to learn phonics. If his hearing has been checked then I’d see no reason not to start.

most reception/phonics courses start by thinking about sounds and categorising them into loud/quiet and making lots of different noises.
(this is sometimes called awareness).
you can certainly do that!

I don't think that learning phonics and reading has got a lot to do with delayed speech, as long as he doesn't have a problem understanding what's said to him.

I was a late talker and so was my son. Both of us could recognise letters and words even if we couldn't say them. So I think the nursery should be introducing him to phonics, if that's what they're doing with other kids.

Reading to him is brilliant - if he's enjoying having time with books, and engaged with that, then that's a huge advantage in my opinion. He will have that familiarity and those positive associations. Maybe try running your finger underneath the words as you read them, so that he gets the idea that the printed marks are connected with the words you're saying. You could also play around with fridge magnet letters if you have them, making very simple words, 'cat' or 'dog' or whatever, to copy a word that you found in a book. Show him that the words are the same and that they say cat, c-a-t. Then mix up those 3 letters and see whether he can put them in the right order again by looking at the book. Just so that he knows that letters make words and sounds.

But I would keep it very light and brief at this age. Feeling like this is something fun and positive is the most important thing. Don't make it a chore. Basically all kids learn to read at some point, but learning to LIKE reading is much less common and is really, really important.

What has the speech and language therapist said about what the issue and causes are? You would normally be given lots of tips/exercises/activities to practice at home - have you got those and are doing them regularly?

I'd look into a new/different private speech therapist. I'd say you need him at a point he can communicate well at school just for life (asking for the toilet, saying if he's hurt or explaining if someone's being mean). No reason you can't do some phonics and writing or numbers at home. I remember school specifically saying kids recognising their own name written down is essential as you want then finding their peg, knowing their clothes/bags/workbooks so you could focus on that and the phonics within their name and being able to write their name.
Use sand and paint and do finger tracing and there are Jolly Phonics on you tube which are good fun songs too.

Nursery are not meeting the needs of your child. They can get specialist support in and deliver interventions. Sounds like the nursery don’t want to do that. Check out their responsibilities as they can’t opt out because it’s hard.

Teach him phonics at nursery?? Madness anyway . Just encourage all opportunities for books along with pre reading skills. Lots of role play , pretend
, situations lots of socialising with other children. Encourage,don't push ,at every opportunity. It's a journey not a race.

You need to see a speech and language therapist again whether that’s NHS or private. Try the ASLTIP website for local therapists in your area if the other therapist wasn’t very good. A speech sound disorder will likely affect their progression with phonics but if he didn’t start speaking until 4, he may also have a language delay. This needs to be discussed and assessed by a Speech and Language Therapist. They will be able to advise you appropriately if you find a good therapist. School will not solve this issue. There’s no harm in trying activities at home but it sounds like you need professional advice.

My dd's best friend was a late talker and had to have speech therapy. At 12, he is top of his school

My eldest 5 all had severe speech delays no underlying issues just seems I make children who can’t talk 😂. They are all 18, 16, 14, 13 &13. Honestly many schools prefer a clean slate anyway when they start reception having them reading before ain’t needed. What I would say is all mine did find reading harder because of their speech however they were all caught up and exactly like their peers by y1. And no one would have known about their speech difficulties. I honestly wouldn’t worry about the reading and phonics however after many many years of suffering speech therapy sessions with all five (like literally I should have gone for a qualification haha) you at home can encourage phonics to help bring on their speech, simple board games and getting them to repeat certain random sounds will help. Also made up words with different sounds gets their mouths and tongues moving as in “ee-f” or ‘sss-b” as in the make those sounds three times then get to choose a game piece to turn over those orchard games are really good. I’ve since had two more children with my husband aged 2.5 and 1 and they are exactly same as how my older 5 were at their age with their speech so have been doing little games like that with our 2.5year old. Honestly though please don’t worry from a fellow mum who did with my eldest I can honestly say the worry was wasted because they all end up no different from their peers.

i would say if you haven’t already asked to be referred to speech therapy depending on your area depends on when they will start intervene our is school age when they have a greater attention span also they can speak ti school in how to help and one of mine had a speech therapist go into school as an out reach programme for 12 weeks. x