5yr old been advised to have 8 teeth out

[Hungrycaterpillarsmummy]

Honestly I am in shock
We took DS to the dentist a couple of months ago because he told me his tooth/cheek hurt and I noticed a bit of one of his molars (D) had chipped. They did X rays and said that tooth definitely needs to be pulled. They did a check of his other teeth and found decay starting on some but didn't say much about it. They referred us to discuss the plan for this tooth to come out and whilst there, they told DH that really, ds needs 8 teeth removed. The 4 back teeth on the top and bottom.

I'm in shock because nothing of the sort was mentioned at his first appointment. Although they did find a hole on his left second molar (E) and it does look like that needs pulled.
Mh and DH had an appointment with the dentist today to discuss it all without da being there. Essentially the top 4 teeth on having starting signs of decay.
We have put so much more focus on teeth brushing, limiting sugar etc since the first appointment that I feel we can try and repair the damage caused to those 4 upper teeth.
The dentist is recommending we pull all 4 from the bottom which I do kind of agree with. But I'm not sure I agree with the top and the reason they are giving, is because they don't want to have to do a second general anaesthetic months down the line.
Whereas, I'm not convinced would need them out at all if we really focus on his teeth.
They did suggest we could cap those 4 upper teeth but that involves 8 appointments. One person tooth to put the elastic spacer on, and one person tooth to put a cap on it.

I suggested we pull the bottom 4 and monitor the top 4 but they said they just wouldn't pull the bottom 4 In that case! I'm so confused. It seems conflicting to the online advice of extraction being the absolute last resort and that filling teeth isn't an option. Whereas we have read baby teeth can be filled..

Anyone have any advice?
Please be kind as we are really feeling so guilty about it already.

Rubbish! My sons teeth are perfect. Its mostly down to sugary drinks.

Thanks @LongTimeLurker264 all good advice. We have swapped water for juice in a lot of cases. I'm just thinking about his diet and our youngest they both drink tonnes of milk. Yoghurt drinks too.

They both love dairy stuff so much I really dont know how to change it.

He did manage the X rays

Juice and squash (even labelled sugar free) rot teeth and quickly. They are pumped full of sweetners when sugar free. It is like bathing in sugar for teeth and naturally it's given frequently. It cost me over £600 in fillings switching to sugar free squash in my grand health switch.

Water and milk are the only drinks my dentist advises. She said if I give my child any treats, pudding, fruit (dried or fresh but particularly dried as its sticky) or juice /squash have him drink some water or milk after to wash the teeth. She also suggested if I was to give flavoured drinks to do it at meal times as eating helps remove it. She is naturally against giving any sugar so does also drill home that no treats/sugar is the ideal!

I don't know if you saw my earlier comment about reversing very early decay. If the teeth are not actually decaying but are "tacky" you can cover them in toothpaste after brushing and rinsing and leave the toothpaste on. It will help rebuild the tooth but it only works if caught early enough. I did it for one of mine that was heading towards a filling at dentist request and it was signed off as not needing a filling 6 months later. ai don't recommend it in place of fillings obviously but might be worth packing his teeth with toothpaste and change his drink habits whilst you await treatment or a second opinion

This is completely false. Sweeteners do not cause tooth decay in any way, let alone "rot teeth."

Juice and squash even labelled sugar free rot teeth and quickly. They are pumped full of sweetners when sugar free. It is like bathing in sugar for teeth
Again, complete nonsense.

Sorry that was for @neepsa too

So what do we do? Second opinion or go with what they are telling us and get 8 removed. It just seems to much and he will have to start eating from the front of his mouth only...how can he eat chunks of meat or spaghetti Bolognese with no back teeth :(

I may be wrong about this (and if I am @neepsa can correct me because they definitely know their stuff!) but I don't think milk is too much of a problem. My kids also love yogurts, so I tend to give them as pudding rather than a separate snack in the day where possible. It's not necessarily about eradicating ALL sugar, because life would be pretty miserable, but cutting down where possible (eg avoiding breads/stock cubes/ready made sauces with sugar in them) and serving sugary treats at meal times rather than as snacks

Yes I did see it thanks. He got the fluoride paste painted on his teeth a couple of weeks ago for the second time. I can try pasting toothpaste on the top teeth although I know I have to watch out for not overdosing him on fluoride too!

No, but I think sugar free squash is very hard to get hold of, so the PP may be referring to No Added Sugar squash, which does unfortunately contain sugar

It's incredibly easy to find sugar free squash. And your post specifically said 'sugar free' rather than low sugar. You also specifically said sweeteners rot teeth. This is not true.

@LongTimeLurker264 honestly it's a minefield.. I never new stock cubes have sugar in them!! Wtf!

Hoping milk is ok!

It isn't nonsense. It may not rot your teeth in the same way as sugar and it might be "better than sugar" but sweetners in drinks and sugar free alternatives are bad for your teeth

https://www.dhamadison.com/dental-hygiene/sugar-free-really-ok-teeth/

https://www.colgate.com/en-us/oral-health/nutrition-and-oral-health/sugar-free-drinks-are-they-safe-for-teeth

Drinks that contain artificial sweeteners can help keep your sugar intake low, but it has been determined that artificial sweeteners are just as likely to contain chemicals that soften the enamel on your teeth. As the enamel softens, it can be brushed away easily, exposing the inner layer of your teeth and causing cavities. At DHA, we suggest you stick with plain water or milk if you want to keep your teeth strong and healthy. If you do enjoy an occasional soda – diet or regular – be sure to brush your teeth soon after!

It wasn't my post, so I didn't make any of those claims. I'm genuinely interested in brands of sugar free squash, because I only know of one (tovali)

Honestly, it's crazy when you start reading labels!

Lots of misinformation on this thread

If a child is having a GA for dental extractions they should leave that Ga dentally fit. Any teeth with active decay that have not been restored prior to the GA should be removed.

Fillings in children can be tricky. Children are often not fully ooperative, you need good moisture control and children have a lot of saliva. Realistically most 5yo won't sit through numbing and drilling, and therefore fillings have a relatively low success rate.

Secondly a child with 8 teeth that are decayed at 5 has a very high risk for developing further decay. The likelihood is if they have developed severe decay by 5 then teeth with early "restorable" decay will likely progress and cause them pain/abscess before they naturally fall out or become cooperative for treatment. Decay progresses quickly in baby teeth

Thirdly yes the burden on the NHS of dental decay in children is massive. Waiting lists can be years, the NHS does not have the capacity to give repeat general anaesthetics for dental decay.

Hi, please don’t feel guilty. Although I felt very guilty and cried at every appointment.This happened to us. Eldest child had perfect baby teeth. Youngest terrible teeth. He was a reflux baby and I think this along with apple juice was the cause. He had all eight of his back teeth removed. They wanted to remove a few at the front but we sought a second opinion and they felt as they come out earlier naturally we should be able to maintain them.

He has some adult teeth now and they all look fine. So hopefully your child’s adult teeth will be to.

It’s completely standard to take out any baby tooth with even the start of decay if the child is going for a general anaesthetic. This is due to the risks involved of going under GA and to avoid needing another one. Having worked in paediatric dentistry within a community/ hospital setting, we would have refused to do the GA without consent to remove all the decayed teeth. I know you’re probably shocked and this is understandable but it wouldn’t be advisable to leave decayed teeth untreated. Hope all goes well.

No fruit juice. No fruit without cheese or plain yoghurt. Brush teeth twice a day (and scrape tongue) from 3 months old (in the beginning we used a baby brush to do both but he’s 4 now and has a tongue scraper too), and now he’s doing both himself. Flouride toothpaste. Rinse mouth out after meals.

Still nonsense. Look at actual research; no sweeteners contribute to tooth decay and some actively reduce it. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3893787/

Apologies @LongTimeLurker264 for mixing you up with this poster.

My ds had terrible teeth as a young child, including extractions and lots of dental work. My other 2 dc, so far, have been fine.
Limited sugar, drinks etc & I cleaned his teeth for years! I think it’s just how some teeth are. His adult teeth have thankfully been much better.

@cowgirl42 thanks for sharing...how was your child after the procedure? Did it affect their speech? How did they feel about it all? And did they struggle to eat food?!

I thought the low sugar squashes with sweetener also contain citric acid - I think it’s that not the sweetener that is a problem re tooth decay.

Also just to comment on the diet questions - plain milk and water are tooth friendly drinks, so these can be drank whenever throughout the day. After brushing at night only water should be drank. Try and ensure any other juices/diluted juices are kept to mealtimes. It’s all about frequency of sugar in the diet - so if you keep all your sugar to mealtimes that is much better than spreading it throughout the day. I’m a dentist and this is what I always advise.

I'm going to agree to disagree. I don't want to derail the thread. It up to op to draw her own conclusions for her own situation

Many (probably most) squashes contain citric acid, whether they're sugar free or not. But sweeteners don't harm teeth at all whereas sugar does.