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Parenting

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Normal toddler or ADHD? Help, i'm struggling! Any parents of ADHD kids that can share their experience?

19 replies

Commonsenseisnotthatcommon1 · 02/05/2023 19:40

DS is 2.5 and I can't work out if his behaviour falls within the normal parameters of toddler behaviour or if he might have some behavioural issues - possibly ADHD? DH is neurodivergent - suffered a mental breakdown, diagnosed with clinical depression and shows all the signs of having ADHD but not sought a diagnosis.
Main reasons for being concerned about DS -
-He has been a fussy eater since he was 10 months old - very limited diet despite my best efforts and those of his nursery. He has consistently thrown food at meal times on a daily basis both at home and nursery for the last 12 months - he knows that its wrong - food belongs on the table not on the floor but repeats the behaviour. He has a thing about throwing in general - tries to throw everything. I've tried giving him things he can throw safely but it doesn't work.
-Time out has zero effect - except more akin to pouring petrol on a bonfire
-He is aggressive towards me on a daily basis & has been since 18 months - kicking/hitting/trying to bite/pulling my hair/throwing objects at me. This is only directed at me & usually a reaction to something he doesnt like or doesn't want to do - like bathtime/leaving house. Although sometimes its spontaneous & for no apparent reason. He had a biting phase at nursery but it was maybe 5 times over a few months then stopped.
Sometimes he bites objects out of frustration - table/wet wipes/chair/clothes.
We do time out after he's hit me, and he will say sorry and understands what he did was not ok but then repeats the behaviour. If he is he doing something that hurts me, and I tell him he is hurting me - then he will most often say sorry and give me a hug.
-He has extreme reactions/emotions when he doesn't get what he wants or can't do what he wants compared to his peers. He will upturn his table/chair - try to bite me/objects, throw toys. Tanturms/meltdowns on a daily basis - 3 times a day.
-Shows defiant behaviour - nursery have said it can take 10 mins to get him to put Wellies/coat on with lots of crying/screaming
-Obsessed with older Children - follows them around copying their actions and repeating word for word what they say. Very sociable - goes up to other kids easily.
-Took 15 months to settle at nursery part time (4 mornings a week)
-Doesn't listen when told not to do something.
-Obsessed with cars/trucks - lines them up. Talks about them in his sleep. Tries to take all the other kids cars/trucks in the park. We go to a park where all the kids bring their toys in the afternoon and share. He will have huge tantrums about having to give other kids toys back - often charging off with their toys. Usually I tell him if he can't give the toy back/share/be kind, we will have to go home and we do. Today we had a slight breakthrough where he returned a couple of cars when I explained the other kids would feel sad without their toys and that seem to hit home.
-Always has been a terrible sleeper - midwife told me at 6 weeks old that he was intense - he screamed all the time- day/night - didn't feed well.
-Needs to burn off his energy/let off steam/run/move - we are in the park for 2/3 hours a day after nursery
-Loves making lots of noise - banging things - seems to be for attention more than anything

His speech is brilliant for his age, he can hold his attention for long periods, sit on my lap whilst I read books (loves books) for up to 45mins. I have noticed he seems to memorise all the words and regurgitate chunks of books/finish the sentences when I'm reading - Julia Donaldson etc.

I had an informal chat with his nursery about my concerns and they think he's normal, he's just a perhaps at the more challenging end of the spectrum. He doesn't behave the same way there as he does at home.

I don't know - is this normal? Not normal? Do I need to ride it out. Keen not to put a label on him because alot of his behaviour could be seen as normal toddler behaviour, just wondering when does it get easier.

OP posts:
HairyKitty · 02/05/2023 19:46

I think it’s too early to say, and even if he is neurodivergent too early to say if it would be adhd.

Although it may all seem obvious to you, parenting courses can sometimes help parents some neurodivergent kids as there’s always an emphasis on consistency and engagement.

Commonsenseisnotthatcommon1 · 02/05/2023 19:50

Yeh I agree @HairyKitty I don't want to flag anything/stick a label on him as kids change and it could well all be in the realms of normal behaviour, but wondering how I can improve the situation - I will look at parenting course/advice

OP posts:
HairyKitty · 02/05/2023 19:57

Even if you dont really need parenting advice, a course may help focus your attention a little. Given what you’ve described I’m thinking scrap any unnecessary expectations, instructions, boundaries - so you can be fully focussed and consistent with what you do expect from him.
You are right I think, it could all be developmental stages, or something may emerge later on.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Creamfirst22 · 02/05/2023 20:01

@Commonsenseisnotthatcommon1 sorry I can't give any advice personally but have a look at "Big Little Feelings". I have found it really useful

Skybluepinky · 02/05/2023 20:28

Doesn’t sound like ADHD, mine flitted from one thing to another and only slept for 2 hours a day, noticeable over developed leg muscles from not being able to sit still. Running rather than walking. Easily bored, on the go for 22 hours a day.
Not naughty or rude but inability to stay sitting without fiddling with things, not being able to wait when they r finished, not interested in long stories just want bullet points.

BertieBotts · 02/05/2023 20:28

It's so hard to judge at 2.5 because the characteristic ADHD behaviour is caused by lagging development in the areas of things like impulse control and emotional regulation. It's delayed by roughly a third, so at 2.5 that's about 10 months, and there's so much variation in normal development at this age that 10 months wouldn't necessarily stand out as unusual.

Just to go through your examples:

Fussy eating is quite common at this age, def not a marker. Sensory issues around food might be, but being fussy is just really normal for age 2-3. Most children start to get more adventurous with food again around age 4-5.

A child of 2.5 normally lacks the impulse control to stop their own behaviour. Saying that they "know something is wrong" misunderstands their development at this age. They may well be able to parrot back to you that something is naughty, and/or have a particular "look" that you may interpret as cheeky/deliberately testing, this is normally just showing you that they expect the action is something that will invoke disapproval, it doesn't mean that they are doing it provocatively. In reality a 2 year old cannot inhibit their own behaviours unless the expected reaction is consistently frightening or painful and immediate (that's why smacking works, even on two year olds - but of course it has so many serious downsides that it is no longer recommended. I'm sure you wouldn't want to do this anyway.)

If he wants to throw things he is probably in a trajectory schema - look up Montessori schemas. It's a way of understanding children's play in terms of how it helps them discover and learn about their environment. Replacing the item with one which can be thrown might not work if he's trying to find out how that item reacts when thrown and he already knows how the other one reacts. When you look up trajectory schema you will find lots of different activities suggested which support this schema. You will also have to keep supervising, remove items which could cause an issue when thrown, distract/redirect and reminding all the time because, again, at 2 impulse control is very underdeveloped.

Aggression/biting/tantrums are not out of the ordinary at age 2, and children vary in how they express this. Some simply are more physical than others. DS2 used to bang his head on the floor at this age whereas DS3 (20mo) will stomp off to be by himself and roar at people and push you away. DS1 (now a teenager, has ADHD) rarely tantrumed at all at 2.5! If he is mainly aggressive towards you, it might be because he feels safe with you and does not feel as safe with other people, or it might be because other people are more confident and clear with stopping that behaviour. Time out and making him say sorry are fine but they probably won't stop the behaviour, that's normal. It will take time for him to learn what is and isn't acceptable.

He sounds like he needs some support with transitions - the getting coat/shoes/etc on and settling into nursery. It might be that he has very intense emotions, which might also be triggering the very physical tantrums. Nursery might be able to offer support/advice with this.

It's common for them to prefer to play with older children at this age - they are in the process of transitioning from parallel play (beside other children) to collaborative play, and other 2 year olds aren't as good at collaborative play as older children are. Repeating phrases is a normal part of speech development, it's called echolalia. It's only considered a concern if this persists past 3yo. It's one of the ways that young children learn speech and grammar rules.

Lining up cars and trucks is very common play in 2 year olds. Again only considered a sign of autism if it persists past the age other children are doing it. It's part of positioning schema (the Montessori schemas again). Likewise very strong, singular interests/obsessions is very common. A lot of boys get very into vehicles; cars, trains, buses, bin lorries, tractors, trucks and diggers seem to be the common themes.

Again very common for 2 year olds not to really understand ownership/sharing. They see it, they want it. All a process. Good that he's making progress here.

The last 3 could be that he is quite sensory seeking - but could equally just be normal toddler exuberance!

Most people find that the behaviour you've described gets easier around age 4, that's when they tend to develop more impulse control and more sophisticated language processing. In the meantime it can help to reduce expectations here, maybe think more in terms of controlling the environment rather than expecting him to obey verbal commands or internalise rules to inhibit future behaviour. Rather than telling him to do/stop doing something and then waiting to see how he responds, try physically redirecting him while you say what you want, so when he goes to throw food, offer him a spare plate "If you don't like it, put it here." If you don't want him to touch something, move him away as you say "We're playing over here". (And ideally, at least at home, block forbidden items from easy reach). If he goes to throw something, try to block his arm. "No throwing. That's hard, it can hurt." Where possible, try to stick to a positive instruction (e.g. instead of "dont run" try "walk next to me") or incentivise an incompatible behaviour (e.g. instead of "don't throw the train" try "My train is driving over the hill, can you drive with me?")

BertieBotts · 02/05/2023 20:35

In terms of resources to help I like How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk.

gceceelia · 08/05/2023 21:07

How is babe, any improvement?

Nimblesandbimbles · 08/05/2023 21:13

It sounds more like autism to me OP based on my DD who is nearly 5 & waiting to be assessed. I think it is hard to tell at that age though as others have said. What I will say is that DD is easier now that she has started school so there is hopefully light at the end of the tunnel!

BuffaloFeathers · 08/05/2023 22:28

BertieBotts · 02/05/2023 20:28

It's so hard to judge at 2.5 because the characteristic ADHD behaviour is caused by lagging development in the areas of things like impulse control and emotional regulation. It's delayed by roughly a third, so at 2.5 that's about 10 months, and there's so much variation in normal development at this age that 10 months wouldn't necessarily stand out as unusual.

Just to go through your examples:

Fussy eating is quite common at this age, def not a marker. Sensory issues around food might be, but being fussy is just really normal for age 2-3. Most children start to get more adventurous with food again around age 4-5.

A child of 2.5 normally lacks the impulse control to stop their own behaviour. Saying that they "know something is wrong" misunderstands their development at this age. They may well be able to parrot back to you that something is naughty, and/or have a particular "look" that you may interpret as cheeky/deliberately testing, this is normally just showing you that they expect the action is something that will invoke disapproval, it doesn't mean that they are doing it provocatively. In reality a 2 year old cannot inhibit their own behaviours unless the expected reaction is consistently frightening or painful and immediate (that's why smacking works, even on two year olds - but of course it has so many serious downsides that it is no longer recommended. I'm sure you wouldn't want to do this anyway.)

If he wants to throw things he is probably in a trajectory schema - look up Montessori schemas. It's a way of understanding children's play in terms of how it helps them discover and learn about their environment. Replacing the item with one which can be thrown might not work if he's trying to find out how that item reacts when thrown and he already knows how the other one reacts. When you look up trajectory schema you will find lots of different activities suggested which support this schema. You will also have to keep supervising, remove items which could cause an issue when thrown, distract/redirect and reminding all the time because, again, at 2 impulse control is very underdeveloped.

Aggression/biting/tantrums are not out of the ordinary at age 2, and children vary in how they express this. Some simply are more physical than others. DS2 used to bang his head on the floor at this age whereas DS3 (20mo) will stomp off to be by himself and roar at people and push you away. DS1 (now a teenager, has ADHD) rarely tantrumed at all at 2.5! If he is mainly aggressive towards you, it might be because he feels safe with you and does not feel as safe with other people, or it might be because other people are more confident and clear with stopping that behaviour. Time out and making him say sorry are fine but they probably won't stop the behaviour, that's normal. It will take time for him to learn what is and isn't acceptable.

He sounds like he needs some support with transitions - the getting coat/shoes/etc on and settling into nursery. It might be that he has very intense emotions, which might also be triggering the very physical tantrums. Nursery might be able to offer support/advice with this.

It's common for them to prefer to play with older children at this age - they are in the process of transitioning from parallel play (beside other children) to collaborative play, and other 2 year olds aren't as good at collaborative play as older children are. Repeating phrases is a normal part of speech development, it's called echolalia. It's only considered a concern if this persists past 3yo. It's one of the ways that young children learn speech and grammar rules.

Lining up cars and trucks is very common play in 2 year olds. Again only considered a sign of autism if it persists past the age other children are doing it. It's part of positioning schema (the Montessori schemas again). Likewise very strong, singular interests/obsessions is very common. A lot of boys get very into vehicles; cars, trains, buses, bin lorries, tractors, trucks and diggers seem to be the common themes.

Again very common for 2 year olds not to really understand ownership/sharing. They see it, they want it. All a process. Good that he's making progress here.

The last 3 could be that he is quite sensory seeking - but could equally just be normal toddler exuberance!

Most people find that the behaviour you've described gets easier around age 4, that's when they tend to develop more impulse control and more sophisticated language processing. In the meantime it can help to reduce expectations here, maybe think more in terms of controlling the environment rather than expecting him to obey verbal commands or internalise rules to inhibit future behaviour. Rather than telling him to do/stop doing something and then waiting to see how he responds, try physically redirecting him while you say what you want, so when he goes to throw food, offer him a spare plate "If you don't like it, put it here." If you don't want him to touch something, move him away as you say "We're playing over here". (And ideally, at least at home, block forbidden items from easy reach). If he goes to throw something, try to block his arm. "No throwing. That's hard, it can hurt." Where possible, try to stick to a positive instruction (e.g. instead of "dont run" try "walk next to me") or incentivise an incompatible behaviour (e.g. instead of "don't throw the train" try "My train is driving over the hill, can you drive with me?")

This is very enlightening for me as well. Thank you!!

Corilee2806 · 24/06/2023 08:58

Hi I just wondered how you were getting on? So much of what you wrote describes my 2.5 year old DS too, I almost could have written your post!

whether my son’s behaviour is ‘extreme normal toddler behaviour’ or there is something more going on (and I know it’s far to early to tell, not keen to seek labels at this stage) I’m just so exhausted by parenting him and feel like I can’t do it anymore, and not getting much help. People keep saying oh yes the terrible twos but it’s so hard and if it’s going to go on for ages I don’t know how to survive! If you got any good advice please let me know - from another desperate mum who fully gets what you’re going through!

User55555 · 06/09/2023 10:39

@Commonsenseisnotthatcommon1 hi OP, are you still there? Feels like you have described my child to an absolute t. Hope things are going okay. X

RedRobyn2021 · 06/09/2023 10:48

Tbh he sounds like my 2.5 yo I.e. completely normal.

I mean this kindly, because god knows I know how hard it is, but reading your post just makes me think you need to adjust your expectations for what a 2.5yo is capable of. Asking them not to throw things because it's "wrong"? They're a toddler, they're going to throw stuff. Big emotions... yep, par the course.

Time out is old fashioned and doesn't work, IMO you need to do some reading about child brain development and adjust your parenting, because honestly it sounds like that is the problem not your child's behaviour.

Sorry if that sounds blunt, I'm not sure how else to put it.

Commonsenseisnotthatcommon1 · 08/09/2023 07:30

@Corilee2806 @User55555 @RedRobyn2021 @gceceelia sorry I've just logged on and seen these messages. His pediatrician referred him for a behavioural assessment as she did not think his behaviour was within the normal parameters. I don't want to put a label on it but at my wits end and welcome advice from the psychologist on how to best deal with it. Pediatrician is of the opinion that I'm doing all the right things and this is too long to be a phase. I've not seen any change in his behaviour, if anything things are worse -
-putting his hand in his nappy and smearing poo all over the wall, bed, himself (arms, legs, face) - this happened twice
-throwing food/plates/cutlery (almost every meal time)
-constipation/withholding
-generally throwing everything usually when he feels angry but sometimes just for no reason, seems impulsive - we are in an appartment block & he will throw things over the balcony despite repeatedly being told not to/it's dangerous. We try the distraction approach but it can come from nowhere without warning.

  • hitting, kicking, pulling hair mainly with me & DH - we tell him he's hurting us but he doesn't stop. Again usually when he's angry but sometimes for no reason.
-everything is a battle - getting dressed, leaving the house, nappy change, eating, walking, bathtime, brushing teeth - all met with resistance (kicking/hitting) We don't have any complaints from creche, sometimes he throws food but generally is better there. But often I pick him up and he is very happy to see me and has a meltdown when we leave -we have about 3/4 tantrums a day

@RedRobyn2021 noted you think this is normal. But we've been experiencing this for 18m +. When he throws something our response is "food is not for throwing, food belongs on the table or this toy is not for throwing, this toy hit mummy and hurt mummy, it is not safe and I will not let you do that, I'm going to have to take it away to keep everyone safe and we can try again tomorrow" - this is the approach the pediatrician said they would also recommend. I can't lower my expectations because I can't allow him to keep throwing objects off the balcony, toys around the appartment - it's not safe.
It's really easy for other people to judge but quite frankly all kids are different as I'm finding. None of his friends are like this.

OP posts:
Commonsenseisnotthatcommon1 · 08/09/2023 07:39

@Corilee2806 sorry you're having a tough time! How are things now? Any better? The only things that help are routine, consistency, not going away anywhere that might disrupt that. We have a book called what to do when you feel like hitting - it's a kids book. He understands it, might work with your child? Sometimes when he's angry and 'hitting' I say "we don't hit, hitting hurts, it's not safe, I won't let you do that, it's ok to feel angry but it's not OK to hit, why don't we go and draw and angry picture instead" and we go into his bedroom and draw a picture with his Magna doodle and that calms him down. Then when he's calm we talk about what we can do instead of hitting when he feels angry. I also tell him that I love him when he's angry, happy, sad, all the time and we have a cuddle.

OP posts:
Oncemoreuntothebreachmother · 08/10/2024 02:09

Hello @Commonsenseisnotthatcommon1 , how are you getting on now? I would love to hear an update

Firstimemum24 · 23/01/2025 20:30

Commonsenseisnotthatcommon1 · 08/09/2023 07:39

@Corilee2806 sorry you're having a tough time! How are things now? Any better? The only things that help are routine, consistency, not going away anywhere that might disrupt that. We have a book called what to do when you feel like hitting - it's a kids book. He understands it, might work with your child? Sometimes when he's angry and 'hitting' I say "we don't hit, hitting hurts, it's not safe, I won't let you do that, it's ok to feel angry but it's not OK to hit, why don't we go and draw and angry picture instead" and we go into his bedroom and draw a picture with his Magna doodle and that calms him down. Then when he's calm we talk about what we can do instead of hitting when he feels angry. I also tell him that I love him when he's angry, happy, sad, all the time and we have a cuddle.

Hi any updates?

Commonsenseisnotthatcommon1 · 24/01/2025 20:04

@Firstimemum24 yes my son was diagnosed with ASD 5 months ago. So now it all makes sense. He's in mainstream school and doesn't need any additional support right now. We have a psychologist that we see every 2 weeks. Our main issues now are dealing with transitions. He's quite rigid/inflexible when it comes to trying new things or making a transition. We have seen lots of progress but it's challenging. We make alot of accommodations to be able to do the simplest of things.

OP posts:
LarkinAboot · 24/01/2025 20:23

That repeatedly throwing stuff is a play schema where they enjoy repeated actions or type of play - this is trajectory.

All the other stuff just sounds like a total 2 and half year old to me - terrible twos segueing into threenager.

That's not to say he isn't but I wouldn't overthink it just yet. Unless it's a more extreme / apparent cases where I am they prefer to wait till age 7/8 to consider assessment.

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