3.5 year old car seat recommendations?

[Changedmyname1357]

I need a new car seat for my tall/16kg 3.5 year old. She's forward faced since 3 years old and sits sensibly - not an escape artist and has recently used a HBB with no issues.

I'd ideally prefer a five point harness, but I'm struggling to find one with an isofix that doesn't cost £££. I know I shouldn't put a price on safety but we're skint, so budget is an unavoidable constraint!

Should I go isofix HBB? Or a seatbelt fixed seat with a five point harness? Ideally needs to be around £100 and bonus points if it comes in pink (not my preference but it'd make the new seat a much easier sell!)

Would you turn her back rear facing and get a 25kg seat as it is much safer? The pelvis isn’t strong enough to use a HBB with a belt until they’re 4.5-5 and FF harnesses aren’t great due to the neck loads created in an impact.

I got this for my 3yo a few weeks ago 😊
It was recommended by the people at Smyths when we went in there, she got to sit in it and try it out.
She loves it

www.smythstoys.com/uk/en-gb/baby/car-seats-and-bases/09-36kg-%7c-group-1-2-3/joie-elevate-2-0-group-1-2-3-car-seat-dark-pewter/p/207122

@Surelyitscoffeetime sadly not - I think hell would freeze over before she tolerated being rear facing again. One of the reasons we turned her around was because of the tantrums during car journeys. Hugely distracting, but stopped as soon as she was forward facing!

@GAW19 thanks, this ticks a few boxes! It says the harness can be used up to 18kg - I guess that's around 4/4.5 years old, did the Smyths people advise you on that?

Yes they did, then use the normal seatbelt afterward

I would suggest the Joie Bold then as it harnesses to 25kg.

The Joie Elevate isn't isofix, which you've said you wanted. It's quite a basic seat and hard to get a secure fit in many cars as it does have quite a shallow belt routing. However unlike many other 18kg seats the harness height is not limited on it, it goes right up as the child grows which can be an advantage. (The disadvantage is you might accidentally go over the 18kg limit without realising).

18kg will vary depending on the child, but if she's 16kg now she should have another year or two before reaching 18kg. The problem with most 123 seats with an 18kg limit is the harness goes up to about 105cm child height, so I'd definitely want to try any seat out before you purchase it, as most children outgrow in height before weight. This is a good idea anyway, but definitely useful if your child is near a boundary limit. Is this the reason you're looking to replace her current seat? If so she might be around the "standard" 18kg harness limit in other 123 seats. If she's not quite at the limit of her current seat, another option might be waiting 6-12 months and looking at booster seats when she is. Children of this age have a tendency to just stay the same height/weight for months at a time and then suddenly have a growth spurt so you could have ages even if she looks close to the limit.

If you def need to change now (or want to have options lined up) I'd compare with/try out the following:
Britax Evolva 123 - in budget, belt fitted but uses "serpentine" belt path which is really sturdy and fits in almost any car. Fits children of her age well. Best rated of any belt fit 123 seat ever tested. Makes a decent booster seat.

Britax Evolva SL (softlatch) - slightly overbudget, uses combination seatbelt + "softlatch" (isofix hooks on a cord) all the benefits of Evolva + updated side impact protection.

BabyAuto Dupla - Slightly over budget, extended harness (up to 25kg) uses combination of seatbelt + isofix up to 18kg, seatbelt, isofix + top tether from 18-25kg.

Cozy n Safe Hudson - In budget, extended harness (up to 25kg) fits using top tether + isofix.

Cosatto Judo - over budget, fits using isofix + top tether, has appealing colours (though beware choosing anything too "babyish" if you want her to use it up to the recommended 10-12 years old). Cheapest "pure" isofix 123 seat with decent side wings I can see.

Britax as a brand is more well known/better reputation than BabyAuto, Cozy n Safe or Cosatto, but these seats are fairly simple not trying to do 100 different things, good established method of fixing to the car if you have top tether points available and the Dupla and Judo look fairly substantial (Hudson is more along the lines of the Joie Elevate).

My favourite 123 seat is Britax Advansafix but in the absence of any offers it's quite far out of budget unfortunately. If you have time to wait you could see if it goes on special offer e.g. Prime day or August bank holiday.

Would avoid:

Maxi Cosi Titan - it got a poor crash test rating and the harness is really short.
Graco - they get poor ratings
Joie Fortifi - looks like the Every Stage, which didn't crash test well forward facing
Nania - again poor ratings and really short harnesses
Anything with impact shield - they don't perform well with taller children.

She is unlikely to be mature enough to sit well in a booster with just the seatbelt, but give it 6-12 months and she might well be fine. You could try this out in a shop also. Britax have some with an extra point of contact between the legs, which can help, and they have a nice pink colour "Rose" which doesn't look babyish. Joie and Cybex both have a hot pink colour which is nice in boosters.

@BertieBotts wow, thanks so much for taking the time to write such a detailed reply - this is so amazingly helpful! Having had a look at them all, I think I'll go for the Britax but I might hang on a bit to see if I can find an Advantafix on sale. Really grateful for your advice!

I'd forgotten how complicated car seats are. I found it easier buying an actual car 😩

@BertieBotts you're obviously very knowledgeable, and I hope you won't mind me asking another question!

Are there any serious safety concerns to a young (<4/5yo) child using a HBB? We recently bought a Cybex Solution X Fix for grandparents/spares (so, very occasional and short journeys). She sits very sensibly in it and loves it, and I've been contemplating keeping it for ourselves. For reference, she's approx 102cm and 16kg. She's currently in a Cybex Sirona but needs to vacate it to make room for our youngest, who has outgrown his infant seat. I don't want to have to buy him another seat when she'll have outgrown this one within 6ish months. I'm just trying to figure out what the most cost-effective arrangement is, but safety is obviously the top priority!

... I've been staring at car seats for too long. Going a bit cross-eyed now!

Sorry I have only just seen your reply, or I would have replied earlier!

There isn't really any research unfortunately which looks at the safety of a harness vs high backed booster seat. It's basically an unknown in terms of biology. There are those who say that it's less strain on the neck with a seatbelt because the head, neck and back all move forward together, but on the other hand there are those who say five point harness is better because it holds the child in position better. Some of the American research suggests that children between 15-18kg are particularly vulnerable in HBBs and should still be in a harness, although whether that applies the same to EU certified boosters, I don't know. High backed boosters are tricky with the data, because they have changed dramatically in design from when they were first brought in in the late 80s to today, and most studies don't differentiate between different styles of booster seat, so you have no idea if it's referring to what is essentially just a flat board behind the child or the modern designs which really almost cradle them and surround their whole body. It's also tricky in EU seats to actually get to that 18kg milestone unless you invest in a 25kg limit seat of one kind or another.

The only thing that we know for sure is that rear facing is safer. If you wanted the safest option, then buying a 25kg rear facing seat would work in terms of lasting your DD longer than 6 months and freeing up the Sirona, but if she is already forward facing, then you might not want to do that (it's also more money than £100, the cheapest is about £160).

Certainly the Cybex HBBs are very good, well rated, and I tended to find that they fit three year olds better than other brands of HBB when I was fitting them in a shop, but 3.5 is really on the young end. You'll know her best and what she's like in the car, one of the concerns with HBB seats is that children might not sit sensibly in it for the whole trip. Short journeys are one thing, but if she's tired, or upset/tantruming about something, those are also things that happen in the everyday life of a 3-4 year old that you might want to consider. OTOH it will not be that long until she is 4 and the chances of you having an accident during that time are quite low. It's not as big of a difference as the change from rear facing to forward facing - when we used to change babies around at 9 months, there would tend to be a spike in serious injury/death at around the 1 year mark (which is why it's now recommended to rear face for at least 15 months). I don't know of a spike like this at around the 3 year mark, which makes me think it probably doesn't make that much difference and you should go with what you feel suits your child. But go with your gut. I thought I'd be totally happy with HBB at 3.5 but I tried DS2 (3.10) out the other day and he looked impossibly small so I don't want to change him yet. I know I had definitely already changed DS1 over at this age and it seemed fine.

Do you perhaps have a spare rear facing seat like Joie Tilt at the grandparents you could borrow for your youngest for 6-12 months, would that be a solution?