Starting (gasp) … Gina Ford routine?

[Mamaofaboy]

My 20 week old DS is in need and ready for a better routine.

Baby led naps are a nightmare - he will have 30 mins maximum at a time and scream holy murder and he’s constantly overtired. I try to feed him (EBF) every 3 hours ish but he doesn’t really show signs of hunger, he’s just
more tired than anything else.

I’ve read the CLB book and thinking of starting him on weeks 8-12 (which I can’t ever imagine an 8-12 week old doing 😱) as that’s closest to what we are currently doing.

I’m not sure how I feel about some methods - avoiding eye contact, advice on when to eat and drink etc 🙄🙄🙄 BUT I do think her routines seem somewhat sensible when taken with a pinch of salt, and I’m willing to give the assistance to sleep method a try for a while to lengthen sleeping.

Any late starters of GF stories or any tips are most welcome!

Saved my sanity with both my EBF babies.

We didn't do Gina but we did follow the Little Ones program which has similarities I think. We too adapted it to DDs needs & introduced around 4months and it worked SOOOOO well!

Took about a fortnight to get into the 'routine' and then life was brilliant. I went from 24hrs a day 'on' for DD to 10 hrs a day. Excepting 1-2 night wakes for feeds till 7 months. night weaning was super easy as she was already well used to settling herself to sleep, in her own cot, in her own room 🙌

Having a well rested baby made her much better company and it was easy to plan activities as we knew what we would be doing when.

Now PG with #2 and hoping to do the same again, maybe from earlier. But, it will depend on the baby really.

You can cope with anything when you're getting sleep - stick with it and you'll reap the benefits.

Thank you all for the experiences and advice. Great points made about being a slave to the routine, it’s more of a guide.

I can’t see why EBF can’t work with GF, DS isn’t fed to sleep we’ve always done Feed, Play, Sleep. I do cuddle and rock him to sleep currently which I don’t mind, except when it’s for six naps of 30 mins a day! Hoping in time I can start putting him in the cot once he’s not screaming with chronic over-tiredness.

@inappropriateraspberry what was the crying thing, the “crying down”? Hoping to avoid the screaming by avoiding overtiredness if possible but this could be naive day one thinking 🤣

[quote Mamaofaboy]@inappropriateraspberry what was the crying thing, the “crying down”? Hoping to avoid the screaming by avoiding overtiredness if possible but this could be naive day one thinking 🤣[/quote]
Sorry, yes! I now have 2 very good sleepers. I also did it EBF, I tried bottles for evening/night but they didn't like them!
Agree that you can be adaptable with it, but it really is good when you're at home and want to eat your lunch without interruptions.

The very premise of this book - to mould your tiny baby into a routine that suits you, instead of responding intuitively to their needs - is completely alien to me. A baby is supposed to keep you up and be demanding. Your baby will not sleep through. Your baby wants to be fed to sleep. Why do we fight these basic human instincts? Because we want routine and sleep? Well, what did you think a baby was about? I genuinely don’t understand why people have babies to then ignore their completely natural needs. And don’t even get me started on telling a mother to avoid eye contact with their own child. Just listen to your baby and follow it’s cues… that’s all the routine you need

I used (approximately) GF with my first baby - this was 14 yrs ago! I found it really helpful that she was able to suggest a routine when so much other baby advice was quite 'wishy washy' and didn't want to suggest anything concrete. As a first time mother with no real clue, this helped me!

In my recollection the stuff that sounds quite dramatic about 'no eye contact' etc is very much in the context of avoiding stimulation during sleep times, to help differentiate these from waking times. So, don't put all the lights on and start with lots of interaction if you're trying to do a quiet nappy change at 3am.

FWIW, with DC2 routine came a bit more easily, just due to having a bit more of a clue and having a toddler around such that the household was already atuned to a kiddy routine. I remember putting DC2 down for the night at say 7ish when he was just a few days old. OK, I can't imagine he then slept all night, but it came naturally to start along that path rather than being something we needed to plan.

I'd recommend little ones app instead

I did GF from the get go, loved it and had a very contented little DD who slept well. I only have the one, and it suited her (and me, I like structure and routine) so I don't know how I would have done it with a baby that didn't like it. Also DD was FF and I think that possibly made a difference.
We did naps with her in the pram, she couldn't fight the sleep when we were walking! I learnt so much from GF about reading her cues and meeting her needs before she started crying etc. I often recommend her book - not to the letter, but the structure & ethos of it.

I did GF with DS1 (now 14). He was BF.
Once I let myself deviate from the routine if he woke early / slept longer, it was fine.

OP, it was a long time ago, but I did it with mine. Not slavishly, but the basics of feeding/sleeping/bath/bed etc etc etc. I came to it a bit late with DC1 but used it for subsequent DC. It worked very, very well for us. Again, you don't have to do absolutely every single thing - but a lot of it is good sense. I've had loads of problems with my DC over the years, obviously - who doesn't! - but they fell into the routine quite readily and, importantly, I wasn't permanently sleep deprived. This includes a very high maintenance DC with ASD. Mine were all formula fed, so I don't know if that makes any difference.

Wow @ChequerBoard what a pleasant individual you are. Nope, I’m not self-righteous, or a mum martyr, and I’m definitely not looking for any extra points, I just don’t understand what’s wrong with giving your baby what it wants instead of trying to shoehorn it into a routine. But clearly a routine did you the power of good because you sound like a really chilled out and calm individual

At 20 weeks, he’s right in the middle of his four month sleep regression. Four month olds are notorious for sleep problems.

One thing that might help is to nurse more frequently, and to take him to a dark, quiet, distraction free room for feeds. Four month olds often get so engrossed in play that they forget that they are hungry, and they then make up for lost calories by waking more at night.

It's been a while for me but Rachel Waddilove routines were a life/sanity saver for our three, flexible and quite foolproof common sense. Of course ignored the bits that didn't work for us, but 4 hourly feeding with good naps during the day is perfectly achievable. There's nothing wrong with a routine to the day with some flexibility, we all have one. It gives predictability for any humans who can't make sense of language and gentle encouragement is very different to neglect and harm. Good luck op.

GF is a no from me. I really liked the Huckleberry app - gives you wake windows for when they should be getting tired and it was pretty spot on for us. The Little Ones program was also helpful to get DD used to going to sleep in her cot instead of being rocked when she got too heavy, but I adapted as fit her needs rather than following anything to the letter. She's 2 in November and will still fall asleep on me at times but that isn't the norm for her and sometimes she just needs the comfort so I'm able to go with it.

@ChequerBoard
“You don't extra points for being a mummy martyr you know.”

Good job really seeing as if you had actually been martyred you’d be dead. They’d be fuck all use.

I don’t think saying children like routine and thrive off it is necessarily the same thing as sleep training a 20 week old or whatever but there there you go …….

Clearly though this approach works for some people. I have found that too set a routine proves to difficult and maladaptive particularly with more than one child, changes in circumstances, new activities and environments. In my experience a child who has a less rigidly defined schedule but still knows at some point within a reasonable timeframe certain things will happen ie bedtime between 7-8 not bedtime at 7.10 every night lights out is the ideal. Life doesn’t follow a spreadsheet and if your child cannot get to sleep half an hour later because their routine is off that is ludicrous

@DebbieHarrysCheekbones it would be better if you actually read my post where I clearly said:

"I used GF very loosely, I'm quite a structured person and needed some semblance of a routine with both my DC.

As long as you don't get sucked into following GF (or anything else) down to the minute and adapt it to suit you and your baby.

My DC were very different, one loved to nap and one didn't etc. so we tailored the basic structure to meet their needs."

No spreadsheets, no stopwatches just a structure rather than the 'baby led' insomnia that the previous poster was advising is essential to the raising of babies.

Hi, I found GF very helpful. DS loved routine and adapted to the GF one very quickly at around 2 1/2 months when I discovered her. There was very little crying at all, he quickly got the put down sleepy in the cot and fall asleep thing. He always followed a routine that was for much younger babies than his actual age. And we didn’t follow it rigidly, had he cried a lot I doubt I’d have done it for more than a few days. I remember that he always slept longer than GF thought he should, and we did weaning very differently to GF’s suggestions.

Then I had a reflux baby and of course GF routines were impossible to follow, not that I tried. She became a GF toddler though, once we’d learnt to manage her reflux better. And to give GF her due, she does make it very clear that her routines are for healthy babies.

[quote ChequerBoard]@DebbieHarrysCheekbones it would be better if you actually read my post where I clearly said:

"I used GF very loosely, I'm quite a structured person and needed some semblance of a routine with both my DC.

As long as you don't get sucked into following GF (or anything else) down to the minute and adapt it to suit you and your baby.

My DC were very different, one loved to nap and one didn't etc. so we tailored the basic structure to meet their needs."

No spreadsheets, no stopwatches just a structure rather than the 'baby led' insomnia that the previous poster was advising is essential to the raising of babies.[/quote]
My comment about rigid routines was not aimed specifically at you.
I only selected your comment at martyrs and made a bit of a joke.

The remainder of my post was a general observation including my own experiences, as I did note you didn’t follow GF to the letter. Perhaps be a little less defensive ?

@ChequerBoard hmmm… I kind of missed the bit where I said insomnia was essential? Maybe you were too busy being rude and telling me to piss off to actually read my post properly. Or maybe I hit a nerve, because your response was certainly disproportionate and needlessly aggressive. But then maybe that’s just you.

What I said is you should expect babies to be up at night and to not sleep through - a baby is biologically hardwired to wake through the night, and I think there is a serious problem with Gina Ford trying to turn natural instincts into something you can control, and setting unrealistic expectations, which inevitably means making mums feel guilty, and denying the baby something that want and need, e.g to be fed to sleep, to be comforted when they cry etc. I have a structure to my day, of course I do, but it is led by my baby, and it makes us both happy. And whilst I’m tired at times, I certainly don’t have insomnia. I’m not sure what the air quotes mean around ‘baby-led’, but yes, I had a baby, which means I put her first. Something Gina Ford does not advocate

I did 'baby-led' with my first, but it just wasn't possible with 2 under 2. DS2 got used to a routine of eat, play, sleep very early on and we even did a bit of gentle sleep training at 9 months. It's interesting how different my children are now - DS1 thinks he rules the roost, DS2 understands that he has to fit in with the family. If anything DS2 is the happier child.

I would always go with the philosophy that a child joins a family, rather than makes a family. Much better for everyone.

A baby is supposed to keep you up and be demanding.
This made me laugh out loud. Some people really don't understand babies.

I tried GF but soon gave up on it - she recommends very little daytime sleep, and is far too rigid about it all. I did find some of her advice invaluable though, for example that you need to wake your baby at the same time every morning to start your routine.
I had a routine for all my 3, it just wasn't GF's routine. But they all slept and woke at set times. Much easier for everyone that way - including the baby!
I'd definitely recommend giving GF a go if you already have the book, but keep in mind there are many other routines if hers doesn't work for you.

I have four. They are all really different but they were all Gina babies and it was a sanity-saver. She doesn't demand slavishness and people not actually reading the book properly does my head in. I highly recommend it.

GF worked well for me.