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Parenting

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Experience or sleepyhead or purflo nests

36 replies

Babyontheway21 · 07/08/2021 19:36

Hi

For those that have /had any of these what was your opinion on them, did they help you lo feel more secure when they napped?

OP posts:
MotherOfCrocodiles · 09/08/2021 07:10

Dc1 would only sleep with sleepyhead til she was over two. Dc2 wriggled out of it all the time so only had it a few weeks.

Both had cocoonababy when tiny which was great, very cosy

we have spent a fortune on those things but have never ever had the 'baby won't sleep when put down' problem thank goodness.

recreationalcalpol · 09/08/2021 08:38

Please don't put your baby to sleep in one of these things ffs

I have two children now, so I am much happier with assessing the level of risk that I am content with regarding safe sleep. Posts like this one really contributed to my crippling PND/PNA after my first child was born, however.

BertieBotts · 09/08/2021 08:52

The problem with saying that there have been deaths in the US but not in the UK is that the UK is a relatively small sample size and these products are fairly new to market - they have been introduced within the last 10 years. I don't know exactly when they first came to market but as I said before - they weren't around with my DC1 in 2008 but were with DC2 in 2018. I have a feeling Poddle Pod was the first one in the UK - which I can trace back to 2013 - but having not had small babies between those two years I may not have been paying attention. When DC1 was tiny there was a product called Snuggle Nest which was a hard sided in-bed co-sleeper product. This was recalled.

According to an ANEC report there has only been one death relating to cot bumpers in the UK over the last 10 years. (16 deaths in the US over the same period). Does that mean that cot bumpers are safe? No, it probably just means that sudden unexpected infant death is rare and there are relatively few infants in the UK using cot bumpers.

The problem remains that there are no safety standards for baby pods/nests and they tend to incorporate padding near to the baby's face, which is a known hazard for other products, so there is no reason why it would be different for these new products. "Breathable" as a product description has no legal status and does not necessarily mean that a product doesn't impede breathing or airflow. The ANEC report is looking at creating safety standards that these products would need to conform to going forwards in order to be allowed to state they are safe for sleep, which I think is a good idea.

American babies aren't significantly different from British babies - I am not sure why it's significant in that case that no babies have died in the UK when using these products? Unless it is relating to the way that they are typically used. As I understand it, in the US safe sleep messages focus on keeping the cot absolutely clear, even blankets are discouraged, but also prohibit co-sleeping as a very dangerous activity. Therefore these products are marketed in the US as a way to make co-sleeping safer. Parents are more likely use them in the bed rather than in cribs and cots.

OTOH British safe sleep messages, although it's also emphasised to have a clear cot, the messaging is not quite as strong in this area - items such as blankets are considered safe when used correctly and co-sleeping is not completely taboo, there was a study done a few years ago saying that completely banning co-sleeping leads parents to do so secretly without advice from health professionals, leading to more unsafe co-sleeping practice. So instead there is advice around how to co-sleep in the safest way possible. As a consequence these products are not marketed as co-sleeping products (although some people use them that way) and they are more widely used within cots and cribs.

In terms of being riskier than co-sleeping - co-sleeping is inherently risky, particularly for young babies, because adult beds are not designed for infants and contain several hazards which must be mitigated. However, if you do mitigate these hazards (no drunk/intoxicated/medicated adults; no older children/pets; bedding away from baby; parent in the protective C-position; ideally breastfeeding mum, which is a combination of breastfed babies being lower risk overall and BF mums' typical behaviour and positioning of baby in the bed, possibly something hormonal to do with lighter sleep and frequent arousal; baby secured against falls and entrapment) then there is no/only slight increase in risk compared to a cot, which is designed specifically for infant sleep and which you have to do/add things to to make it unsafe.

Source: Multiple, but BaSIS have some good summaries - use the links on the sidebar to see older studies
www.basisonline.org.uk/hcp-research-summaries-2014-2016/

So the problem with using a nest product when co-sleeping is that you are not actually mitigating several of these risks.

If an adult is so drunk/tired/medicated that they would not notice rolling over onto a baby, a pillow is not going to make the baby more noticeable.

When these products are used, babies tend to be placed in an unsuitable position for example between the parents, often between the adult pillows, not within the protective C-shape that a breastfeeding mum typically makes. This is a problem because it makes it more likely that the baby will roll unnoticed into other bedding or become covered by adult bedding as the less-aware adults move and shift during the night. It is also possible (suggested by sleep studies and anecdotal evidence) that parents co-sleeping in the C position have a higher awareness of their baby's temperature, position and general well-being which is thought to potentially have a protective effect against SUDI, and may be why co-sleeping even though it is obviously more hazardous overall does seem to work out at around the same risk level and/or even a lower risk level after around 3-4 months of age (different studies seem to find the tipping point variously around these ages)

There is likely some correlation between bottle feeding and use of the products in bed, because the advantage of co-sleeping for breastfeeding mothers is easy access to the breast. In a baby nest the baby is no closer to the boob than they would be in a separate sleeping space next to the bed.

Lastly, in addition to these three hazards which are not being mitigated the sleep nest in itself introduces the hazard of suffocation and overheating as discussed previously.

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recreationalcalpol · 09/08/2021 09:00

Completely agree with all of that bertie, and FWIW I co sleep with DD and do not use a sleepyhead overnight (because she sleeps better when co-sleeping). There does not appear to be any comparative study between the safety of co-sleeping and using a sleepyhead type pillow though, as a PP suggested.

Bluestarsinspace · 09/08/2021 09:12

But this is the problem, isn’t it?

Statistically, co sleeping is probably the most dangerous thing you can do. Two babies a week, according to that guardian article.

Mention that and people are very keen to insist that it’s actually safe as long as you don’t smoke, drink, have a pillow, have a duvet, are not too tired - I forget the others but to be honest if you follow the safe co sleeping guidelines to the letter there’s pretty much no difference between that and a baby in a bedside crib or cot.

Yet mention a sleep aid and it’s horrifyingly dangerous even though the stats don’t add up.

I am not anti co sleeping and if it works for you and you like it carry on. But I hate the way it is pushed so doggedly when other things that can aid sleep are treated with horror.

Check the facts and make up your own mind, every time.

recreationalcalpol · 09/08/2021 09:36

@Bluestarsinspace

But this is the problem, isn’t it?

Statistically, co sleeping is probably the most dangerous thing you can do. Two babies a week, according to that guardian article.

Mention that and people are very keen to insist that it’s actually safe as long as you don’t smoke, drink, have a pillow, have a duvet, are not too tired - I forget the others but to be honest if you follow the safe co sleeping guidelines to the letter there’s pretty much no difference between that and a baby in a bedside crib or cot.

Yet mention a sleep aid and it’s horrifyingly dangerous even though the stats don’t add up.

I am not anti co sleeping and if it works for you and you like it carry on. But I hate the way it is pushed so doggedly when other things that can aid sleep are treated with horror.

Check the facts and make up your own mind, every time.

Exactly this
Poppy709 · 09/08/2021 10:30

Sorry if I wasn’t clear, I meant if you’re going to co sleep it’s better to do it on a clear, firm mattress than using a nest in your bed. I think the above poster has really clearly explained why. In terms of co sleeping vs nest in baby’s own cot, that risk assessment is different for each family depending on your circumstances. I did not like co sleeping and I agree that it isn’t just a catch all solution, I didn’t do it until baby was 4+ months, following the safe sleep 7 to the letter and got baby back in his cot as soon as he would tolerate it!

Letsallscreamatthesistene · 09/08/2021 11:01

Used a purflo nest and my son slept really well. Id recommend. It seems similar to a sleephead but way cheaper.

AndSoFinally · 09/08/2021 12:18

Christ alive, £120!!! For a pool noodle in a pillow case???!!

ChocBeforeCock · 09/08/2021 12:25

I agree with @Bluestarsinspace and think that what arcof wrote about “please don’t put your baby in one of these things FFS” is really insensitive.

Of course they aren’t completely risk free but the risks are tiny. Co-sleeping isn’t risk free, and parenting when you try to survive on literally no sleep because your baby won’t sleep outside of a nest most definitely isn’t risk free.

Make your own risk assessment as to what is safest for your family in light of the baby you have.

BertieBotts · 09/08/2021 14:39

Well, true that there's no comparative study, but you're never going to get a comparative study on every possible combination of options. Which is why it's important to be able to make a risk assessment for yourself (or just follow the guidance if you can - that's the easiest way as it means someone else has already done the risk assessment for you.) BTW Lullaby Trust says OK to co-sleeping if certain risk factors aren't present, but no to sleep nests.

The reason there are different stats on co-sleeping is because it's complicated - it's only risky when you look at co-sleeping as a whole, not when you look at co-sleeping in a specific set of circumstances which are quite well studied now.

OTOH baby nests aren't well studied because they have only been around about 8 years. But the use of them is very simple - you don't need to separate out stats about how people are using them because unless you're doing something absolutely stupid, like balancing it on the edge of a sofa or putting it in contact with an open flame it's not really going to matter how you're using it - it either presents a risk or it does not. And the information that we have relating to other products such as pillows and cot bumpers would suggest that it does present a risk.

I don't think co-sleeping is always the better solution, but I would not suggest anybody uses one while co-sleeping and I definitely wouldn't buy one "just in case" - I do understand sleep deprivation is horrendous and if you're already in a situation where your baby won't sleep you're probably weighing up the risks of various less-safe sleep options against the risk that you'll present a hazard to your baby by being sleep deprived yourself. I would just want to say don't rely blindly on the fact that no death has been attributed to these products in the UK over a fairly short time period because that isn't a good indicator that something is safe.

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