Hubby left 18 month old home alone - advice needed please

[MamaBear0307]

I found out tonight that my husband left our 18 month old alone in the house sleeping whilst he popped to the corner shop to get beer. Now that I’ve found out about this I strongly suspect this isn’t the first time this has happened.
I’m actually in shock that he could be so selfish. I am a very relaxed mother but this I am not ok with.
The shop is 30 second walk from the house so not a massive distance.
Please tell me what you think, what would you do? How would you react and handle this?

Thank you xxx

I have a family member who works as a drug and alcohol counsellor. She says, when diagnosing if someone has an alcohol problem, the quantity/frequency is not the issue, but basically if it is adversely affecting the person's life or those around them. Which, from what you say, it clearly is. So by that definition, he does have a problem.

Obviously the best would be to get him to seek help for himself, but if that's not possible, you can start to look for help by looking up various organisations online, or by asking your GP who may be able to refer you to someone like the person I know, who is trained to help you find more options (you can ask for help/support for yourself as someone affected by alcohol, even though it isn't you that's doing the drinking).

I actually think that leaving the sleeping baby to nip to the shop 30 seconds away is the least of the issues. I would have done this.

However it was the fact he did it to buy more alcohol, after already having had a full bottle of wine that is worrying. As you say OP, he is clearly alcohol dependent.

He is also lying to you about timings.

He exposes your baby to smoke on his breath and clothes, even though he smokes outside.

To me, those would be the bigger issues than nipping to the shop that is so close by.

So i spoke to him and it didn’t go very well.
When I brought up about how he smokes in the garden with the doors closed he said it’s no different to when I pop upstairs what’s to stop the baby having an accident if I’m not watching him 24/7. I get his point but at least I’ll hear if anything happens, he won’t hear a thing with the doors closed.
I’m regards to the drinking he calls it “hypocrisy” because I like a drink too.
Which again I get to some extent but I never let drinking impact on family time and I would never in a million years leave a child.
he is also adamant that he went out at 7:30 to get the beer. I’m not sure if I’m more worried about that because then he consciously planned to drink that much.

So what are you going to do?

The nipping to the shop, not ideal, but I’d be on the fence about that, assuming child was safely contained in cot.

The drinking a whole bottle of wine and then going to buy beer whilst in sole charge of child - NO WAY!

Good luck OP

Couldn't bring myself to get too excited about this, frankly.

Is the child still in a cot, or in a safe and secure bedroom? If so, what does everyone think is going to happen in a couple of minutes?

As for the wine and the 'drink problem', if he drinks 4-5 days a week then that's 2-3 days a week he doesn't drink, and if he drinks regularly then a bottle of wine over an evening isn't a huge amount. I drank that much last night and I would have been fine to be in charge of a child, especially one that was asleep in bed!

I appreciate your reply but I think you are missing the point. To leave a child on their own to purchase alcohol is not acceptable.

Hope you're doing ok OP. Tricky situation.

Op, I'm not saying this to be harsh or unkind but his arguments about his drinking is the exact same thing my mil used to say when dh and his siblings expressed worry or concern about her.

We've been together 18 years now and would drank a bottle of cider five evenings. She'd be aggressive to anyone suggesting it not healthy, and because she thought alcoholics drank all day and she only drank at night then and could miss a night then she wasn't addicted, she'd also say that because her adult children had a drink on a weekend they are hypocrites.

Her drinking got worse, and up to a year ago she was on a litre of gin a day, I'd never leave dd with his her alone because I felt her drinking was excessive by the time dd was born, dh agreed with me, dhs siblings had her provide childcare though and I think because they see her daily and the drinking gradually built up over the years it didn't seem to bad.

She'd pick her grandchildren up at school and stink of alcohol, she'd deny deny deny, she's left a child alone to run to the shop for gin when she'd ran out, she's fallen over drunk on the playground, she's set the wheelie bin on fire by chucking fag butt in that she'd not extinguished properly and fell asleep. Luckily the child she was looking after was an older one and managed to wake her.

We've all tried everything to help her, shouting, sympathy, even rehab, nothing has worked because she still doesn't think she has a problem. I really really do understand you not wanting to leave him and that you want to try and encourage him to change his drinking habits by himself but the hours and hours I've spent reading trying to find a way to help mil all point to the person realising how damaging their drinking is on others for themselves, and sometimes they have to hit rock bottom before that point comes.

You can't make hims stop if he doesn't want to, the fact he can't or won't see that you going in the shower is totally different to him locking his toddle in the house so he can go smoke or buy beer is an ok thing to do reminds me of mils attitude in the early days, you can only control your response to his behaviour and at this moment in time I don't think he should be left to look after his child if he's putting booze and fags before his child's safety.

Best of luck OP, I will say that even if he says he will change, don't be so quick to fully trust because mil used to this a lot and she was just saying sil wanted to hear to get her off her back.

Why is it any less acceptable to leave the child on their own to buy beer than it is to buy milk? If it's dangerous to leave them for five minutes (ie they aren't confined in a safe cot or room, they're prone to waking and wandering, the environment is unsafe or whatever) then it's dangerous whatever you're buying, and if the child can be left asleep for five minutes then you might as well be buying beer as milk.

He won't change because he doesn't want to. He's deflecting blame. Alcoholics rarely admit they have a problem, and in my experience are prolific liars.

The question is, do you want to continue to live with him like this?

Fair point.
I guess it’s the principal of the whole situation.

The myths around alcoholism/addiction are rife.

In my - and many experts - opinion it's not about necessarily how much or how often they drink/use its about how it affects their actions in the areas of their life they need to act responsibly - so parenting, work, driving etc.

In addition in this case the fact he was able to drink so much suggests to me he may well be drinking more/more often than op knows about anyway.

He's also prioritising drink over his parenting responsibilities. That means he's prioritising drink over his child! That's completely unacceptable.

Op as the child of an alcoholic myself I wouldn't be leaving this guy either in sole charge of the child nor driving this child. I wouldn't trust him not to be over the limit. Tbh I'd be trying my damndest to stop him driving at all.

Actually at this point with my own history, I'd be leaving and doing everything in my power to only allow supervised access to the child until he got the drinking dealt with.

"It’s a sad situation because I don’t want to make him feel like a bad father" well he's not a good one!

I strongly recommend you seek support from an organisation experienced in supporting families of addicts/alcoholics eg al-anon because you also seem to have a level of denial - not uncommon though. You love him and don't wan to think bad of him but remaining in denial doesn't help your child, or even your dh.

I'd class him as an alcoholic op. Alcoholic means alcohol dependent,

www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/health-effects-of-alcohol/mental-health/alcoholism/

www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/about-aa/newcomers/about-alcoholism

Some days he can take it or leave it so does that mean he’s not alcohol dependant ?

I would say

A no because other days he CAN'T take it or leave it and those days seem to outnumber the sober days

B once he starts drinking he can't control his consumption

C it's entirely possible he's drinking when you're not aware he is - addicts are experts at hiding their addiction, they are masters of deception.

"Take it from someone who's been where you are now. If he no longer understands that being bladdered whilst looking after a toddler is fucking stupid and selfish, he's not far away from drinking in the morning" also true - it's a gradual development, people don't become addicts overnight there's rarely a clearly defined moment they become an addict.

"and if he drinks regularly then a bottle of wine over an evening isn't a huge amount" it is - this just means he's built up a tolerance - part of alcoholism.

Sethos, in this situation it is less acceptable as taking the fact that he left the house out of the equation, regardless of your opinions on the father's likely capacity after having consumed a bottle of wine, he went out to purchase more alcohol to which would ultimately have reduced his capacity further.

@Graphista tolerance is just what happens when you drink fairly regularly - it's not necessarily indicative of alcoholism. If you drink regularly then your body produces more of the enzymes you need to process alcohol. Therefore you process it a bit more efficiently and aren't as drunk as someone who rarely drinks would be on the same amount. Other things affect alcohol metabolism, too - size, weight, what you've eaten. A woman who hardly drinks would be a lot more affected by a bottle of wine than a big bloke who habitually drinks four nights a week.

Half the population of the UK are alcoholics if you listen to lots of mumsnetters.

@losingfaith I just don't share this outrage often expressed on MN at someone getting moderately pissed in their own home whilst their child is asleep in bed. As long as someone isn't getting hammered and passing out insensate, what's the problem?

I'm not sure where the "outrage" comment has come from re my earlier post. You asked re the difference in buying beer vs milk. I was simply pointing out that factually purchasing something that will ultimately reduce capacity is actually worse than buying something that doesn't. We'll clearly have to agree to disagree on this.

I didn't say that you were outraged, losing - I was referring to the outrage I've seen on here many times about parents drinking when their children are in the house, even when asleep upstairs.

Why is it "worse" to buy alcohol? It is legal and socially acceptable in this country to recreationally "reduce capacity" by drinking alcohol. As long as he's not reducing his capacity to the point that he couldn't make a judgement on whether his child needed medical care, or that he wouldn't wake up if they cried or a smoke alarm went off, I just don't see the problem.

A part of me gets what you are saying, and we have certainly had some drinks with the baby sleeping upstairs on several occasions.
But the fact is he wouldn’t leave the baby to go to the shop sober, he only did it after drinking which just highlights how alcohol negatively affects the brains capability on making risk adverse decisions.
Can I just say that alcohol consumption being socially acceptable in the U.K doesn’t mean it’s right or that it should be tolerated.
yes, it is often fun drinking however when you start behaving in negative or dangerous ways that’s when you need to look at whether or it’s really worth it.

Our DS has been poorly all week what’s to say he wasn’t to have a coughing fit and choke, or wake up crying and no one was there.

If it’s not ok for someone to get so drunk in the house that they don’t hear the smoke alarm or can’t make a judgement on whether or not their child needs medical care how are they going to achieve that if they go out of the house and leave the baby alone..

My DH is an alcoholic. I've posted several times under different names. He is sober now and has been for 14 months. My rock bottom unfortunately wasn't his rock bottom. This may be yours, but he has to hit his.

You don't have to get him to agree with you. Stand firm in your point of view. It was irresponsible, exposed your child to unnecessary risk and can not be tolerated. This is not how you intend to raise your family.

He has a choice to make. Join you in raising a family, without alcohol; or you will continue to do this alone. Stop making plans for the future. Do not book holidays. Be open about saving money to move out. Make your beliefs clear and demonstrate to him that you are prioritising your DD and keeping her safe. He is welcome to join you in protecting her and keeping her safe.

If he does not join you, admit he has issues and starts to deal with them, then he has made his choice. It doesn't have to be an ultimatum. It's about wanting different things and a different life for your daughter.

Mama I agree with almost everything you wrote there. If he wouldn't pop to the shop while he was sober then he shouldn't do it drunk - if his risk assessment is that it's not safe, that shouldn't change.

Also agree that something being acceptable on a societal level doesn't mean that you have to find it acceptable personally. That (your DH's drinking) is something to address with your DH and come to an agreement about, though - it still doesn't mean that he is necessarily an alcoholic. You certainly aren't obliged to stay with someone whose drinking is unacceptable to you, though, and if that's how you feel then he has a choice to make.

If your DS is poorly then that changes the flavour of the situation - he's more likely to wake up even if he's usually a sound sleeper, and more likely to need comfort if he does.

I would still say, though, that if a child is in its own room, it's not necessarily going to wake you (in another room, soberly sleeping) by coughing/choking (especially as properly choking tends to be very quiet or silent), nor would many parents rush to a child as soon as they cried (illness notwithstanding). So a parent being out of the house for 5 minutes and checking the child immediately on their return would be no worse than a parent being fast asleep in another room, if the child is safely contained.

It sounds like you have major concerns about your DH's drinking in general. Have you asked him to cut down/stop?

As someone who has been in a house fire I absolutely plead with anyone who thinks this is ok to rethink. It's totally different than being in the bath.
Within 1-2 minutes of the fire starting (kitchen fire) my whole downstairs was in flames and full of black smoke. I didn't realise how fast it spread. Everything went up. Kitchen cupboards, the flooring, my kids toys. Scary.

Sethos It is worse given the circumstances.

1. In sole charge of child;
2. Bottle of wine down;
3. Leaves child to go and purchase more alcohol.

Personally I think a bottle of wine followed by multiple beers isn't ok and is likely to to impact on making sensible decisions, ability to drive if need be etc- I just don't see the point in taking that risk. Like I said we will obviously have to agree to disagree.

"tolerance is just what happens when you drink fairly regularly - it's not necessarily indicative of alcoholism." Yes I understand how chemical tolerance works thanks - I'm an ex nurse with several alcoholic relatives!

But the fact is the act of drinking more and more is also contributory to the tolerance building within that persons biology.

My dad at his worst was downing a bottle of vodka and 6 strong beers daily and yet people who knew him quite well at that point would have described him as stone cold sober!

An awful lot of people DO drink more than is within safe limits and I personally think alcoholism is hugely UNDER recognised.

"As someone who has been in a house fire I absolutely plead with anyone who thinks this is ok to rethink." Totally agree I've been in 3, 2 as a child the 3rd in a bedsit in a large property and the shared kitchen went up.

It's not even just the fire - it's the smoke! That's faster developing and incapacitates and harms really frighteningly fast!