Help my ill Mum is claiming she "can't live her life knowing that I've hired a professional nanny "instead of using her - what would you do?

[Wills]

The history behind this as always is long and complex so I'll try to keep it as brief as possible.
Basically my dm has always had a very tight hold over me emotionally and normally gets me to do whatever she wishes. She has mastered the art of emotional blackmail! Recently (in the last year) she has started seeing a counsellor about the fact that she was seriously physically (not sexually) abused by her mother as a child. At the same time I am finally pulling away from her which of course she objects to.
My dm adores my children because a) she is a grandmother and b) because in many ways she is a
child herself. In the last 4.5 years since dd1 was born there have been many instances where she and I have rowed over how I raise my kids. If I stand firm she will instantly go down the emotional blackmail route such as calling me a bad mother. I have just finished my maternity leave (the best year of my life) and returned to work last Monday . Dh and I found a wonderful nanny share with another family just like us. My dds have been going to the nanny on a gradually increasing basis over the last 3 months. Sometimes the nanny would spend the time with me and sometimes without. My dds are very happy with her and my dd1 (4.5 years) is incredibly happy with the other two children (both around her age). My mother used to look after dd1 until I went on maternity leave with dd2. I was not happy with her care. She loves dd1 almost as much as I do, but due to her illness (she has pallendromic arthritus) she was unable to take dd1 anywhere (clubs, other children) and when they did go anywhere (shopping) would often loose dd1 (aged between 2 and 3.5) until dd1 decided to come back. She had no control over dd1 and simply resorted to bribery - then complained to me that I wasn't disciplining my child properly when she misbehaved. (There is no way my mother could even drop dd1 off to school in September as she couldn't even walk her to her classroom.) I know my mum adores my kids and I know my kids adore her so I have asked that my Nanny take the kids around to her at least twice a week and I will endeavour to take them at least once over the weekend.

Given all this background how the heck would you react to a phone call where she was crying her eyes out down the phone saying that her life just wasn't worth anything without the kids and that she wanted to see them a minimum of 3 days a week (without the nanny) or "there was absolutely no point to her life and she couldn't go on like this". I did challenge the suicide aspect of her conversation and I think she was shocked that I had done so. She simply told me not to be stupid. Even so - I hope I've given enough information about her that its obvious that I'm not necessary dealing with a rational adult mind. More like a child. What if she really did do something stupid?

HElP - please - I've only been at work 3 full days and am struggling with that as well

Wills - my only comment would be that I would leave out telling her that she has given it no time, and the 'melodramatic' bit as it sounds like an accusation, which will only set her off!

What about: 'I think once the system has settled and we have all given it time to work, you will see that you do get plenty of time with the children. '

My worry is for the poor nanny - is she really going to have to see this woman once a week????

good luck!

ps I finally bit the bullet to my bizarre fantasist revisionist father a month or so ago who AGAIN tried to tell my dh and me that he had played professional football in his youth (under an assumed name so his father didn't find out ffs) and said "dad, I know you didn't, dh knows you didn't, we wouldn't think any more of you if you had done, so why make up these things? you don't need to, you know." Gulp. So I do vaguely know what handling mad-as-a-hatter parents is all about!!!!!

Does she not realise that she is actually a really lucky lady to get to see her grandchildren as often as she does in the first place. What a shame she feels the need to spoil what is otherwise a lovely set-up - a great daughter and grandchildren in her life as close as you all are?

I also have a mother similarly skilled in emotional blackmail. A few years ago, I remember telling her if there were degrees in guilt tripping, she would have a first... and she actually smiled and looked pleased with herself!

I think your response is just right - your mum will surely continue to make you feel bad if you let her. Good luck - I know standing up to a dominant mum is really hard ((( hugs)))

Wills - what an awful situation you are in you poor thing. At the end of the day you know that you have made the best choice for your children. The thing is just because she is their nan does not give her over all control of child care. That is crazy. I think that you should treat her like a child having a tantrum - because that is what she is doing. First she tries emotional blackmail, then more blatant manipulation with the fact that you are killing her (give me a break) she may as well stamp her feet and throw herself to the ground in a paddy!

I would humour her to a degree, whilst sticking to your guns. When she realises that you are not backing down she will back off a bit. It is only because you are suddenly so strong - it is throwing her off balance. This situation is like the way super nanny deals with children!

Like everybody has said you and your family are no 1 priority and this nanny sounds great. I hope that it is ok. I would try and keep e-mails and communication about this subject as short and to the point as possible. sort of - this is my decision, lets move on from here, it is not the end of the world, are you coming for dinner sunday?! You know what I mean, be light hearted and if you are like that all the time when she is having an outburst she will learn that her behaviour is getting her no where.

OK so far so good! I got dh to take the girls over there yesterday for a couple of hours. He acted completely normally and the topic of the girls care did not come up . I phoned her on my way home from work and asked if she wanted to see them again this morning - for which she was delighted. I thought all was going well and was amazed that it had been such a small battle. Alas not. I got home to a stroppy email basically giving me an ultimatium - here it is:

I was so delighted to see the children this morning and I appreciate that you must have asked ?my dh? to come so thank you?so I guess I know you love me really
As far as your decision making is concerned I had no intention of discussing it further?.I hate begging and that is all that you have now left for me. I think you have forgotten the art of compromise and replaced it with extreme hurtful actions
The statement ?I am confident that the decision that I have taken over my children's care is currently the right one and I don't want to discuss it further.? Is the language & style used in a place of business and is unnecessary.
. your decision making has far reaching effects ?it will affect the children and it has seriously affected our relationship, someone who you ?love absolutely tonnes?, but I know you will have to live with it?so good luck kid?There is however still time for you to reread my last email to you where I suggested a compromise?.instead of telling me you do not want to discuss it further ?I suggest that you work with me AND the rest of the family to find a loving and workable compromise. To suggest that I am too ill to look after the children when they come to a home with 3 willing adults here who love them to bits is rubbish?.
Mumma

Its funny that she thinks I'm treating her like people at work. God - if I used language like that at work .... No way!

Anyway I'm going over there in a mo to leave the kids there for a couple of hours. I will try to act completely normally but firm. Considering how upset I get at the emails I do wonder whether or not I'll manage to do this in person iyswim. Oh boy.

Wills ((hugs))
she is making a mountain out of a mole hill!! What a nightmare. Be strong and carry on being firm. I know that this is harder than it sounds, just think in a couple of months you will be looking back and thinking what was that all about. She will probably move onto the next issue! If you get drawn into this cowardly war of words (obviously she knows she is out of order or she would say these things to your face) this will drag on longer.
She is just reacting to the fact that you are standing your ground and she doesnt like.

I hope it goes ok today x

oh wills, she is just so unbelievably manipulative...i'd just write a two liner:

i do love you tonnes mum, and i don't want to discuss this further.

then maybe carry on the email changing your subject...

she says you're using business like language, but the way she is carrying on you'd think she was your boss!!! 'work with me' my arse...she is not their parent!!!!!! i'm so frustrated for you and feel for you so much, it is so hard to love someone so much and for them to behave like a spoilt two year old rather than the parent to you that they are...

Maybe email isn't the way to go here on the communication front. It's very easy to be strong and arsey in an email, but much more difficult to keep that up face-to-face. She must know that she's in the wrong, and I doubt that she'd be saying this to you in person.

If she remains difficult, just bring up the question of her health and how it impacts on your children's safety (losing DD1, for example). Tell her that you've hired a nanny so that you do not impose on her and that any time spent with the children can be for fun rather than as an unpaid childminder.

Well so far we're so of at an impasse. I saw her Saturday and didn't say a thing. Neither did she but I think that's because she's very much used to me caving in by now and was expecting..... So far I'm holding out but of course the Nanny takes over for another week so by Tuesday/Wednesday its likely to start again. Oh well.

Wills - lots of sympathy to you. My grandmother was very much like this with my mum - only my mum caved in (as a single mum living with her parents, not a great deal of choice). only thing I can suggest is rather than trying to reason with her, that you do the "cracked record" approach - i.e. just have one sentence, such as you have made up your mind to do what you feel is best for your children, and just repeat that, like a cracked record whenever she raises the subject. best of luck

Wills {{Hugs{}}}}

A couple of thoughts on reading the last few posts:

1. It is not up to you to "compromise": they are YOUR kids, it's YOUR decision. As you quite rightly describe, she is used to you doing what she tells you but YOU DON'T HAVE TO. YOU'RE A GROWN UP NOW. She seems to think she has a RIGHT to see the kids - she doesn't. It is a privilege.

2. I agree with Mummytosteven about using the "cracked record" approach. Don't even respond to the e-mail and if she raises the subject again (either in person or by e-mail), have your response rehearsed and ready, eg "I'm happy with my decision, dh and I both feel it is the right one for our children and I am sorry that you are upset by it, as we still want you to be a special part of the children's lives. But it is not up for discussion.".

Make sure to prepare the nanny - if your mum tries to drag her into the "argument", then she also needs to have a prepared response, eg that she's happy to bring the children round as that is what she has agreed with you(ie her employer) but that if that is going to cause problems, then she (your mum) should take it up with you (at which point you use your cracked record).

As someone has said, your mum is acting like a toddler having a tantrum "...'snot FAIR!!!!", stamping her feet and using everything in her repetoire to manipulate you.

Your response needs to be the same as to a toddler, "I'm sorry that you are upset, but the answer is NO" and NOT giving her the additional attention that she is craving.

cheers for the hugs. I agree the broken record is the way to go. Today is lousy. For starters I've just had my first weekend and the realisation that time with my kids is restricted to two days a week (excluding bed times of course) has got me down. Also I know that the Nanny is not planning to go to my mother's today. I also know that my mother will probably be sitting there waiting. So basically I'm waiting for a threatening call/email. If it doesn't happen today then its going to happen soon and its horrible waiting for your mother to phone you up and tell you off. I hate rows (not really surprising given my upbringing - she always won) and get round them normally by saying sorry first. That kind of behaviour was getting me nowhere though.

She's pissed of dh by buying one of those enormous on the top pools. dd1 will love playing in it and its obvious that she's done it to win her heart (which she doesn't need to do because dd1 loves her anyway). None of the other adults in my dm's house can use the pool! But of real concern is that none of the other adults could actually get into the pool if my dd1 were to have an accident. She's only 4.5 and can just about manage 5m worth of swimming. He's furious and wants to ban dd1 from going round - to be honest I suspect he's feeling frustrated at the whole affair and wants to "kick back" at my mother. But I want to keep the high ground.

Oh babe, hang on in there. I'd be worried about the pool too, I have to say. But - at least - will she only be using it in the presence of the nanny/a parent?

And I have to say in the overall scheme of things it's quite good that they haven't visited your mum today. She has to face reality.

Hugs.

Wills - don't let your mum spoil your precious time at the weekends. Just enjoy the time you DO have with them.

Out of interest: your mum makes the comment about the "3 willing adults" who are around to look after your children. Who does she mean?

I'm loath to suggest that you raise the "issue" of the pool, because, as you suspect, she may think that you are using it to get back at her.

But it may be appropriate - at a suitable juncture - just to raise with her (or one of the other 2 adults "on site" what their contingency plans are, should your dd get into bother in the pool. Phrase it in such away that you assume/are confident that they HAVE thought it through.

Janz. The 3 willing adults (notice she didn't say able!) include her, my step father (who really is not good with kids and resents their need for my mother's attention i.e. scouls everytime we turn up), and my 76 year old godmother who, bless her, can't really cope with more than 2 hours.

So what would you do now.... We've not spoken since last Saturday but that was amicable. I'm reluctant to phone from work and by the time I get home she's normally working (she works in the evenings from 6 - 10). The nanny has been with her today and mentioned my dd1's operation next Tuesday. She already knows because I've told her numerous times but she doesn't listen - she never has. According to the Nanny she's upset that I've "kept" this information from her! I haven't! Do I phone her? I wasn't planning to see her until Saturday.

Do nothing wills, leave it til Sat I would.

I agree with www - don't contact her till Saturday. If you contact her beforehand when you weren't planning to do so, you are in effect giving her attention for her attention-seeking behaviour, which will be an incentive for her to carry on (think toddler taming again!)

Well I didn't contact her. I was out last night had some time with my dd's this morning before coming into work. Something's going on, I'm struggling to put my finger on it but its leaving me feeling sickened. Does that make sense? I told my dd1 that tomorrow I was off and that she and I were going to play, what did she want to do. She responded quickly that we had to play with Nanna too. That's fine I was planning to see my mother tomorrow anyway. A little later on just before I was going to go she and I were having a cuddle and I told her that I loved her very much. She responded by telling me she loved me too and then paused and added and I love Nanna as well. I'm torn between two conclusions. The first is that I'm somehow keeping my dd1 away from my mother and that its hurting my dd1. I'm really not trying to come between my dd's and my mum and I feel an enormous sense of horror that I'm doing wrong here. Am I being a bad mother? OR my mum is getting to my dd's with guilt already. I can't/or don't want to believe that someone I love as much as my mother is capable of doing that. At the same time I adamently do not want my dd's carrying the sense of guilt about doing anything for themselves that I've been carrying. All I can say is that if dd1's not been around my mother for a day or so she rarely mentions her. Occasionally she'll express a desire to see her and normally I arrange that (me or the Nanny). I'm feeling so confused at the moment.

I'm sorry I keep writing but your comments do help loads

Oh, Wills. You know what the answer is to your question - why do you think that your mum would NOT use emotional blackmail on your daughters when she clearly uses it on everyone else in her life? Of COURSE she is. Both of those things that came from your dd are as a direct result of whatever your mother has been saying to the children. And I think you should take a hard line on it immediately, so that she knows you are "watching her" IYSWIM - you'll never be able to stop it completely, but you can make sure it is less overt, therefore less concentrated, therefore hopefully less damaging and confusing to your dds. I really think you should sit your mother down and tell her that you are very happy for her to see your daughters 3 times a week as arranged, but you are NOT prepared for them to be made confused and upset by whatever it is that she is telling them, and that if you DO hear things like that from your daughters again, you will have to consider only letting them visit when YOU are able to take them, and not the nanny, which will necessarily be fewer times. Tell her that you are very well aware of her methods of getting her own way, which you have lived with and gone along with for years, but that you are not prepared to have your those techniques used to confuse and upset your daughters.
You need to continue to stand up to her, and let her know she is being stood up to. And use your position of strength - the fact that you control access to your daughters, to manage her. It all sounds like hard hearted games - it isn't, and you probably rightfully feel angry that you have to resort to these sort of artificial tactics to manage your relationship with your mother and daughters - but remember it is NOT YOU who is forcing this, it is HER.
And it is deeply unfair of her.

Thanks pph. You're right about the hardline but I'm not sure how to go about it. Any challenge will of course be met full on by her - possibly because somewhere inside her she knows it isn't right. I hate fighting and I think this is why I always end up giving in. She probably knows this. But at the same time I don't want the current situation to continue. I don't want my daughters being burdened with guilt so it is stiffening my resolve. Grrrr