Please help - feeling utterly exhausted and don't know what to do!

[Ellaroo]

I wonder if any of you can give me some potty-training advice. DD is going to be 3 in two months time and she was showing lots of interest in the toilet, knew when she was doing a poo and desperately wanted to wear big girls pants, so this week we started potty-training. We are on day 3 with it and she is just constantly wetting herself. Each day we have used between 12 and 17 pairs of knickers. She doesn't seem to have any desire to tell me before she is about to go and today while doing a poo she refused to go on the potty at all and wouldn't sit down on it. She spends most of her time doing 'pretend wees and poos' on it, but refuses to do the real thing there. I get the feeling she is holding the wee in to avoid the potty, then lets a bit out and wets her knickers and then stops it mid-flow, I put her on the potty and she can't go, then I put fresh knickers on her and then she lets the rest come out. What should I do, is this normal, should I be having more success on day 3? I have a 14 week old baby to look after too and am finding it difficult to juggle both things, but really want to get it done in the summer holidays as her nursery either take children in nappies or potty-trained, but not the inbetween stage as they don't want the children to suffer the humiliation of wetting themselves infront of their friends. This makes good sense to me and I don't want to have to put her back in nappies come September. Husband is complaining the house smells of wee and I have never had such an exhausting day and just feel like crying. What should I do??? Thanks.

...just to add something, my friend says that I am being too nice about her accidents and that I really should be more forceful that she NEEDS to go on the potty and that weeing on the floor is not acceptable as dd does not seem at all upset by the accidents. However, everywhere I've looked it seems to say that you should keep accidents low-key no matter how many there are. Today we didn't have a single success though, so I am beginning to wonder...

ellaroo - poor you! went through this with my ds1 (now 4) i hope the following may help you:

1. have a rest and try next week you must be so tired with baby to look after aswell. there is plenty of time.
2. when you are ready, take 4/5 days out of normal rountine ie. not going out. if this is possible, tesco shop online etc.
3. let her go naked or no bottoms
4. buy a doll that wets her self/has potty - i bought mine from woollies for about £6
5. restrict all treats for when she has success
6. instead of talking about being wet, turn it around to focus on being dry, check her every 10 mins then gradually 20 etc. praise her for being dry, as she gets the hang of needing to be dry, begin to get her involved and ask her to check herself and say how pleased you are that she's dry
7. get her to teach her doll as she progresses so the message really begins to sink in and teaches her responsibility
8. go on her potty if you have to to help reinforce message 9.if problem with poos then line potty with nappy
9. over the weeks/months move potty nearer the loo and allow her to take something with her like her doll to reassure her and make it a positive event! and reward her with raisins/fruit/choc
10. i took potty with me under pram/in car as most public loos are never near when you need them or they are just too horrible/scarey best of luck xx p.s ALL parents who have children under 4 have houses that smell of wee - i use olbas oil to try and hide it

Shrub - those tips are refreshingly different from everything else I've read particularly lining the potty with a nappy and also the doll idea. I think the focus on being dry may appeal to my daughter - she would certainly get more praise this way, I so want to be able to praise her for something - my only worry about the focus on being dry is could this cause dd to hold in the wee for too long to keep dry and forget that the potty is there as an option? Did you find this at all? Lol about all houses smelling wee...oh how wish we'd installed wooden floors...

forgot to add that every time you go for a wee - say to her 'i need a wee' and make her go with you
please don't worry. she will get the hang of it when she's ready. summer is best time. i tried my ds1 when he was 2 and he just wasn't ready so tried again the following spring. you could also get an older child to go to the loo with her - that can sometimes mean all the difference. also you could try and catch her midflow and put her on potty lots of praise or buy a potty for each room? i also remember it being such a competitive thing aswell which is ridiculous. i didn't talk to anyone in my toddler group about it as i felt it was none of their beeswax - talked on mumsnet though

Hi Ellaroo, sounds like you are having a tough time wit the old potty training. I went through it with my ds, I tried him just before he was three and had loads and loads of accidents, it does come in the end know, Shrubs advice is brilliant. Could it be that she just doesnt like the potty, could you try a child seat on the loo. We have the Baby Bjorn one and its brilliant, it costs about £15.00 from Boots but fits on every loo (in my experience anyway). I have just training my dd and she is 2 and the experience has been so different, she just took to it (not what you want to hear, sorry). It just showed me that all kids are different and that you have to be patient. Also are any of her friends trained, perhaps they could come over to play and she could watch them having a wee, it might make it more realistic for her. Good luck and dont feel pressured, esp as its the summer, I did my ds in January and just accepted that my sofa, carpet, entire house would be wee'd on.

i would give her loads of juice so it wouldn't be a possibility - and just praise her so much that she thinks weeing on the potty is just the best thing in the whole world ever - twirl her around, dance, sing, say 'look you've made a wonderful puddle in the potty!!' whatever may appeal to her. there is a dorling kindersley book which just had photographs of boys on the potty which also helped my ds1 - they do them for girls too. we've recently move house so haven't got the title to hand, might be from great little trading company or urchin if i recall. as a halfway help i also bought some pants that had an extra layer of towelling in them which were useful when you have forgotton potty and have dared to go out for longer than half an hour. will try and find name if interested

pepsis advice brilliant too! also along the toilet seat line - i remember a friend saying that she put her kids facing back to front (towards the back of the loo) so they could see what they were doing which held a real fascination for them

Boy Shrub, I'm not inviting you around to sniff the odours in my house! (with 3 children aged 4 and under in it...)

Bribe her with bits of chocolate (1 smartie?) each time she wees when you ask her to on the toilet, Ellaroo -- just take her once an hour, or maybe every half/hour if you think that's better, ask her to wee, if she does, give her a chockie. That may just sharpen her concentration?!

zebra - not an insult, mine does too its just mixed with the heady scent of eucylaptus! i would be terribly suspicous if a house didn't smell of wee. i would be thinking the mum has obsessive compulsive disorder or a secret cleaner. you can't fight it. its just there. you think you've found all the wees - but there is always another one lurking, cooking away behind the sofa, around the back of the curtains....i am now going through 'aim issues' with my ds1 and my dh for that matter, there is nothing worse than walking into a sea of wee in the morning

I would also suggest that you shouldn't be afraid to accept that it's too early, and give up to try again in a couple of months time.

When my ds was 2 my SIL started badgering me about potty training him (caused me some ill feeling actually). Anyway, I resisted her until a month before his 3rd birthday, then spent a week trying to get him clean. It just wasn't time. Yes he knew when he wanted to go, and he understood the idea of going on the potty, but it just didn't come together at all. After lots of of mopping up (and febreze spraying) I gave up.

4 months later I tried again, and we were 100% successful in just 3 days!

So maybe she's just a bit young yet?

give up for a bit - we have been through this a few times with our DS1 - he is just 3. He is now almost getting there - but still reluctant.

Bribery with jelly babies is sort of working - but failed totally when he was younger.

If we push him to go every hour or half hour he gets very upset - very counterproductive for us. We just have to try and pick our times. If he tries and doesn't manage to do anything he doesn't want to try next time.

I found histrionics re-inforced the message. Huge joy, applause and whooping when she does go, and tragic faces, "Oh no! Poor baby!" terrible catastrophe (but not anger) faces for when she had an accident.

Also, on the potty, give her a book to play with, then a doll, read her a story, whatever, so that it's not boring for her.

Storming thread - I'm going to print it out and give it to a friend who is just starting the potty training this week - Shrub - you should produce a leaflet with this advice to be distributed in clinics!

I agree with those who said to give up for a bit ...
I tried to potty train DS when he showed all the positive signs at 2 and seven months and had 5 days of hell. He just didn't 'get it', I would say, "Do you need to go to the potty?" and he would shake his head and say "No!" and then 30 seconds later as he looked at me a nice wet patch would appear on his trousers and a puddle would appear at his feet
We gave up and tried again when he was 2.11 and he didn't even have one accident ... dry in 24 hours ...
Don't give yourself any more stress and give up until she is ready ...

Ellaroo, I don't understand about what you say about the nursery .... what happens to the children who start there in nappies and then have to go to the in between stage to be dry? Do they get sent home until they are in pants and then are allowed back? Sorry if I am being thick but I don't understand that rule!

Agree also that a loo seat might help if you want to crack on ... DS never liked the potty ... much happier on the loo ...

No Ghosty, they have to wear nappies until they are completely reliably dry, so it would mean that even while I'm potty training I'd have to put her back into nappies for her nursery sessions, which I don't want to do. So they recommend that to avoid having to do this you train in the holidays. Having slightly better luck today by watching dd's face like a hawk and have managed to get her onto the potty for 2 wees and 1 poo today, also rewarding with 1 chocolate button for each success. However, this only works when I get her there, she doesn't seem to have that much of her own inclination to get there. Thanks so much for all your advice.

take comfort Ellaroo in that you're not the only one.

My DD is driving me to tears, frustration and generally insane with her potty training.
She will do it for her childminder and do it at friend's houses but when we're at home, she just wets herself all the time and then runs off to get a clean pair of knickers. she doesn't even let me wipe her clean.
i'm going out of my mind too ....

That seems a bit of a harsh line for the nursery to take - nappies or pants and nothing inbetween. Even children who are reliably trained will sometimes have accidents, how do the nursery deal with that? It puts a lot of pressure on you to get it sorted in the holidays which seems a bit unfair.

I do sympathise, it's a stressful time potty training. With my twin DDs it seemed to be one step forward then three back, I thought they'd never be out of nappies. One of them used to wee at nursery on purpose just so she could wear a pair of their spare badly-fitting jeans which flapped above her ankles!

DS began his own potty training before I was ready - i.e I hadn't read any advice on how to do it, and consequently did it all wrong - i.e we did use nappies sometimes, when going out etc, and not others, and it didn't seem to confuse him at all. Because he was ready, and knew when he was going to wee, if he was unsure, he'd say 'have I got a nappy on?' and if not, go to the toilet.

Ellaroo - the advice below seems really good. I think your instincts are absolutely right and you should definitely ignore the person who says you should make a fuss about accidents.

We're in the middle of potty training too. One piece of advice I've been given which I don't think has been mentioned so far is that when an accident does happen, don't change the child out of the wet clothes immediatly, but let them be uncomfortable in them for a bit. That way they will learn why it is better to wee in a potty. But this piece of advice only seems appropriate when it's warm and you're outside....

Can the people who left it really late (i.e. 3+) tell me if they all found the whole potty training thing very easy. I am feeling like I can't go on and it's only Day 4, but if it's going to be like this whatever age I do it at then I will persevere, but if people think it is easier later then I may give up. I've asked dd and she says she wants to go back to nappies and she has spent the day in the garden wetting her knickers repeatedly and laughing and seems to have no desire to keep pants dry or even earn chocolate buttons for getting it in the potty. What do you think? thanks.

I tried over and over again with my ds from 2yrs old and the reason it never worked was that 1. he was too young and just didn't get it and 2. TBH I did not persevere enough/lost my patience easily. However, when he was 3yr5m I was determined to crack it so as soon as the christmas holidays started we just stayed home (well as much as possible), I would not allow him to wear trainer pants in the house, he just ran round with pants and top on, I also did not allow the tv on on a morning until he'd done something in the potty and the thought of no cbeebies did it! I never lost my cool, I just set out the rules firmly IYKWIM and gave loads of praise along the way - within 2 weeks he was totally dry/clean during the day and within the next month, dry at night also. (BTW I was also very firm that it had to be wee and pooh in the potty, none of this putting nappies on to pooh in that some children do). He soon moved on to using the toilet, I think we've only had 2 accidents and now, aged 4, he goes to the toilet on his own, flushes it and washes his hands!!
It may be that she just is not ready - I'd lay off it for a while and then restart when she's a bit older with a star chart or rules in place. Good luck and don't worry we all go through this someway of other. HTH lmb

I tried over and over again with my ds from 2yrs old and the reason it never worked was that 1. he was too young and just didn't get it and 2. TBH I did not persevere enough/lost my patience easily. However, when he was 3yr5m I was determined to crack it so as soon as the christmas holidays started we just stayed home (well as much as possible), I would not allow him to wear trainer pants in the house, he just ran round with pants and top on, I also did not allow the tv on on a morning until he'd done something in the potty and the thought of no cbeebies did it! I never lost my cool, I just set out the rules firmly IYKWIM and gave loads of praise along the way - within 2 weeks he was totally dry/clean during the day and within the next month, dry at night also. (BTW I was also very firm that it had to be wee and pooh in the potty, none of this putting nappies on to pooh in that some children do). He soon moved on to using the toilet, I think we've only had 2 accidents and now, aged 4, he goes to the toilet on his own, flushes it and washes his hands!!
It may be that she just is not ready - I'd lay off it for a while and then restart when she's a bit older with a star chart or rules in place. Good luck and don't worry we all go through this someway of other. HTH lmb

oops ... no patience, posted twice

Thanks little miss bossy. I was all ready to give it a break and then my dh has just come home and insisted that I should persevere with it and thinks that her laughing when she does it on the floor and avoiding the potty is a behaviour problem rather than a sign of her not being ready as she does know when she needs to go, she just won't go on the potty or the toilet. Arrrg. Anyway, ds is having his four month vaccination tomorrow - I can't wait, our first nappy-free trip out and then a grumpy baby for the rest of the day...

Oh poor you - not any advice as there has already been so much great advice posted, just lots of sympathy! I used to think that it was a hell of a way to get the living room carpet cleaned - doing spot by spot on my hands and knees!
Best of luck- you will get there!

We gave in to a lot of pressure to PT/TT ds1 when he was about 2.5yrs. It was a complete failure. Ds1 had an absolute phobia of the toilet and refused to go anywhere near a potty. He was physically ready (didn't wee in the bath or when he was nappy-less) but just didn't get it. We tried again over the next 12-18mths and failed each time. We used a different technique to help him understand what he needed to do and when. Until this time his perfectly logical reasoning was "Why should I use a toilet and have to stop what I'm doing when I could just wear a nappy and carry on with what I'm doing?" He is completely unaffected by peer pressure so that didn't help either. We started again at the beginning of the summer holidays when he was 4.1yrs and it was like a dream come true. On his first day he stayed dry for 10 hours. His only accidents were when he was really tired. I doubt very much that your dd will still be PT/TT at 4yrs old but IME persevering when they're not ready is a waste of time.