hitting children

[girlie]

I am really upset. My ds is difficult to handle. He is 12 and if he doesn't like something or doesn't want to do something, he shouts. It is really difficult not to simply end up shouting and screaming back. Tonight, my dh offered to speed up his getting ready for bed which is usually painfully slow and I get so tired of the nagging. But, within a couple of minutes of my dh entering his bedroom the shouting starts and my dh ends up hitting our ds. I went in to the bedroom and dh looked really wild and hit him again - a hit, not a smack. I find this really upsetting. Ds was cowering on his bed shouting, "No, Dad, no!" This has happened before from time to time but ds is getting older now and I fear that in a couple of years he will be taller than dh and will start hitting back. So, instead of helping, ds is upset, I am upset, and to make matters worse, when ds went to bed, dh would not go to say good night to him which upset ds very much so I stayed and cuddled him for 10 minutes and we both cried.
My dh is not a violent man - he has never hit me or our dd, and I rarely even heard him shout in the 12 years before we had kids. But I don't ever remember my Dad hitting any of us kids and I don't like it.
Am I over-reacting?

i dont think you are over reacting. have you spoken to dh about this?

I don't think you're overreacting, but your dh is probably just as upset. As you say, if he's not prone to shouting or hitting, then its probably upset him as well. If it were my dh (but I'm divorced - so any suggestions of mine may not be wise!) I would suggest that dh explains to ds how frustrated he was, and reinforces how much he loves him, even though he's frustrated. I find with mine (the eldest is 14) that a consistent routine helps - reading between the lines, I think you already have a routine.

you are not over-reacting at all. it is totally unacceptable of anyone to HIT another human being. let alone a child (be it your own or not). Although you defend dh by saying he is not of a violent nature and never touched you or dd, it is stillunacceptable, sorry. also, in his defemce again, maybe that's how his own dad treated him so you could say he doesn't know any better. but still, it does not excuse his behaviour. my parents hever hit me or my brothere, ever like in your case. it's not just a question of you not liking it, you and ds being very very upset by it, it is pure and simple unacceptable. it may eb a delicate subject to discuss with dh, but you must approach it and tell him it's not on, also arrange it as such that dh does not spend time on his own with ds for a while to avoid any altercations. imo, there is absolutely no reason in the world to hit anybody, no matter how stressed one is or frustrated. end of story. i'm sorry i sound harsh, but it upset me reading your message and thinking of you and ds cryng together because of dh's actions. perhaps start a different thread on advice about getting a 12yo to bed without arguments, then you'd hopefully solve this one issue. poor you, and ds, i really am upset by this and wish i could give you both a big hug right now. you must address this problem with dh asap (when he's in a reasonable form of course) and explain you and ds are v v v upset by what happened.

you are not over reacting at all girlie and i feel really sorry for you but your dh should NOT be hitting your ds. he is 12 yrs old, he must be so confused to be hit by his dad. there could be an underlying issue to his behaviour-maybe he is being bullied or something?

i think you need to seek professional help with your sons behaviour-your dh is obivously acting out of frustration but hitting/shouting won't improve your ds behaviour-will probably make it worse, and your dh is probably feeling fairly crap too.

and yes, dh should explain to ds what made him do it. but i still think even so, it should never happen, no matter what the reason behind it.

Thanks, everyone for your messages. Did talk to dh briefly, but he said it was the only way to get a result. Some weeks ago, we sat down as a family after a similar incident,and because ds hits dd (as I type this, I realise this is not very surprising) and we agreed that family rule no. 1 was 'No hitting in anger'. Punishments for adults and children were agreed. For kids, this is 10 minutes in room without TV. For Dad, this is no recording anything from TV for a week. So I have told DS that DH will not be allowed to record anything for a week. I also reminded DH about rule. I then (in another room) heard the video recorder start up, and switched it off.

Girlie, in my opinion, its not the only way to get a result. As your ds is 12, I think he'll be starting to get a sense of independance, and this is when it begins to get tricky, as Im sure you've probably gathered through ds starting to shout. I think dh or you shouting at ds, is only going to provoke ds to retaliate as he's getting a reaction out of what he is doing. have you tried talking to ds about his shouting? and like the others have said hitting is wrong. your dh should not have done it no matter how heated things get

keep thinking about this tbh i'm not sure how well the system of 'punishing'parents would work either. can you not just have a rule no hitting full stop-rather than if dh hits your ds he is not allowed to record telly, he shouldn't need an incentive not to hit him.

it is definately not the only way to get a result, in fact i would have thought it was the worst way to get a result.

maybe you could try no hitting whatsoever from parents and time out if your ds hits, and lots of attention to your dd if he hits her.

sorry but if dad hits ds is going to hit too........

agree with maisystar, i use to be hit when i was younger, and it wasnt always when i was in the wrong. it knocked my confidence a lot, and i would say it affected me a lot. plus i do feel that the hitting i endured has worn off on me, as when i get really angry, i get the urge to hit whoever im arguing with. at this point, i leave the room, and take a breath of fresh air before i do something stupid. maybe you should try telling dh to do that.

girlie, sounds like you've done a really great job of dealing with this. Do you think it might be worth seeing a family counsellor for a little extra advice on other helpful hints on how to deal with things. I think Relate could be helpful. Look them up online and you can find info on your local branch.
Also, perhaps your dh should leave the disciplining of your ds (or any other adversarial interactions) to you for the time being. It sounds like he just isn't able to deal with it at the moment. 12 can be a really hard age for boys. They are just beginning to realize their sexuality and discover their bodies.
I remember several times as a teenager seeing my father (who is the most mild mannered person), in an absolute rage at my brother. He never hit him, but I don't think he was far off. There was something about his behavior that just pushed his buttons. He was actually pretty good as teenagers go, while I was a terror, but my antics didn't seem to bother my father too much. Funnily enough I can see the same with my dd and my dh. If she's frustrated she makes this awful peacock-being-beheaded sound which I just tune out, but my dh (who doesn't normally mind crying babies) just hates. He will scream SHUT UP at her at the top of his lungs, which of course isn't really the best way to get her to stop the noise, and he knows this, but is just too wound up to think straight to do anything else.

Girlie, you're not overreacting, it's just not on. There has to be another way. I have just finished reading a book that was recommended on Mumsnet, it's called How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk, which is full of very good advice and strategies on how to get children to co-operate. Reading your post, it struck me that the advice in the book could probably help a lot with the problems you are having with your son's attitude.

Really sorry for your stress,and it's very easy to give advice from afar (and when you don't have kids that make your nerves stand on end) but for what it is worth I'd suggest some family therapy- it sounds to me you're all being a bit too liberal and your ds doesn't know who's in charge.I bet the hitting is probably only one part of the problem. If you get some objective outside help from a parenting organisation etc, they may produce alternative methods you had never thought about for dealing with the behaviours.
Really hope it gets better- but it won't until you start changing the way the family is currently working togther. (Dare I ask - have you read the Steve Biddolph books about dealing with boys?)

You have all my simpathy, I think no hitting should ever be allowed but I do also believe that parents as well as children have some rights (not the hitting of course, but there are steps that can be taken to stop some behaviours before they end up with your patience). Thought you would find this book useful, it may help you to understand why your son is acting like this and what you both can do as parents to avoid difficult situations: Steve Biddulph, Raising Boys (available from Amazon.co.uk)

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This is not on at all IMO. Your dh risks losing the respect of your son especially when your son hits puberty. According to Christopoher Green (Raisng Boys) pre puberty is the time to build up happy memories and nurture a good relationship between father and son so if they lock horns later on, they both have something positive to look back on which will bind them together.

Any chance you can talk to your dh about this?

girlie - hi.

I don't thimk you're over-reacting, hitting children is not on especially in that way when your dh had obviously lost control. That said I have ds1 (15) and ds2 (12) and I know just how far they can push you and how frustrating it can be. My dh hasn't hit them but admits to coming so close that it scared him. When it gets like this he walks away, it takes a lot of control and its very hard but he has to do it. And in the long run it will get a better result. I hope you can talk to your dh and get him to understand that its not acceptable...maybe talk about some strategies that he can use when he feels his temper rising.

No, you're not over-reacting, not in the slightest. It's horrible to think of you and your ds being so upset by this and the fact that I'm sure dh is upset too doesn't excuse it for a minute. 'Smacking' kids may be a matter for debate. 'Hitting' kids in a fury, the way you have described is not, ever.

As SofiaAmes said, 12 is a pretty rough time for boys and I'm sure he drives you up the wall at times but he needs a good relationship with his dad at this time and this kind of interaction spells trouble ahead, IMO. Don't want to sound like a doom-merchant but I would really try and nip this in the bud before it goes any further. Please try and talk to your dh again - really talk to him - he needs to be able to control his anger around ds. Good luck x

Girlie, what is your DH's relationship with your DS like otherwise? Is this incident part of a growing problem, or a one-off? I think as others have said, what is really important is for him to sort out his feelings about his son - he doesn't just need to talk to you, he needs to talk to him. In a couple of years, your DS will be big enough to hit back, but you don't want it to come to that. If your DH and DS can work out how to behave properly together now, the next few years will be an awful lot easier for all of you. The teenage years are the time when so many boys grow apart from their fathers and never regain a good relationship in their adult years. Your DH has got to understand that he needs to lay the groundwork now, so that that doesn't happen to him.

Girlie, you need help. You can refer yourself and as many family members as you can persuade to go for family therapy. You don't need a middle man/woman to refer you. Look up family therapy in the yellow pages or else call social services and ask where its run in your area.

It is completely unacceptable for your dh to behave like this. There may be reasons - violent upbringing himself, a son at a difficult age who drives him crazy - but he is the adult and he has to take responsibility for his actions. He would never accept this behaviour - hitting and then a refusal to aplogise - from your children. Why should he let himself get away with it? Facing up to it will make him feel like shit, but it will save his relationship with his children and with you.

You are in a horrible position. But you need to keep your kids safe. Your dh's relationship with his children is not your responsibilty - it is his. You can support him in trying to make it better but you cannot make him want to try.

Family therapy is not easy. It hurts. It means confronting 'stuff' that lies buried. My guess is your dh's father hit him, and your dh feels terrible at repeating the pattern. But if he doesn't he will lose so much, and so will your son.

Thanks to everyone who posted. This is my first chance to catch up with the messages. It has been a difficult week. Relationship between dh and ds somewhat strained because dh thinks ds should apologise for not doing what he was told, but I don't think ds can remember what it is he did or didn't do (get ready for bed when told).
Dh told me that he will let me deal with the potential confrontational situations with ds (homework, bedtime, etc), which I feel is a real cop-out. He is also being very cool with ds (no cuddles, etc). However, ds is trying very hard to behave better - he apologised very quickly this evening to dd when he said something nasty to her. I have definitely lost respect for dh over this - I feel like ds is the more mature of the two. Ds and I have spent more time together this week and we're getting on well, but I feel it is at the expense of my relationship with dh.

why did he apologise quickly though? because he was genuinely soory or because he was scared?? i hope it was the former.

i really feel so sorry for you and especially your ds. everyone on mn knows how hard parenting can be and how kids can push you to your limits but i do feel that your dh really has gone too far with your ds.

i still feel that professional help is probably required, but for example, could you give your ds an 9pm bedtime(or whatever time suits) but he has to get ready at 8pm so if he wastes time and is slow then it is his time he is wasting iyswim.

have you been able to tell dh how you feel about the whole situation?

Hi, Maisystar.
My ds was not scared - there was only ds, dd and me around. I think he knows he has gone too far recently, and is making a genuine effort.
I read your earlier message re the punishments for parents. Because this had happened before, the idea was to recognise that it was wrong for both adults and children to hit - it was not meant to be a deterrent, but the kids thought it fair to agree suitable punishments for all.

Hi Tammybear. No, we haven't talked about it properly. When I came home from work on Monday, dh (who looked upset) merely told me that he wasn't getting involved in the confrontational stuff any more, so I would have to sign the homework log. I told him I don't want him to hit ds any more, and he said he knows that.