Help! 5 month old DD won't stop screaming

[CantSleepWontSleep]

I think it's teething pain, though hard to be 100% sure. I've given her some nurofen, though not sure how much as it's nigh on impossible to administer to a screaming writhing baby. Also applied teething gel. No difference whatsoever.

She went to sleep at 7:30, woke at 7:58, and hasn't stopped screaming since, except for a brief moment when I gave her my breast so I could get a break.

Checked her temp and it's fine.

I'm at my wits end and have no idea what to try.
I can't see her crying herself to sleep if she's been at it for an hour already.

m following this thread with interest. My DS aged 4 months does similar things. He's always been difficult to settle and has had lots of wind/colic. His latest routine is:

Wake at 5am for a feed,
7am feed then up until
10.30-11am sleep for 1/2 to 2 hours (we are always out in the worning, so he sleeps in the buggy or in arms, or the car)

a catnap or sleep in the evening at about 4 or 5,
then at 7 we do bath quite time feed bed routine.
He used to setle ok after a feed and then we would pat/rock him in his cot, but the last few weeks he is screaming for ages. When he finally settles (can take up to 2 1 1/2) he wakes suddenly after 10-20 mins and seems in pain (ie is screaming) this can continue another 2 hours until he finally sleeps properly. Its an absolute nightmare (so HUGE sympathy to others experiencing the same)

Any advice? We will look in to silent reflux...

Am back home and here now

From your earlier post about your DD gurgling on something in her cot, she does sound likely to be refluxing. Unfortunately, you may have difficulty getting your doc to listen from what you have said, as with my first refluxer (DD2), they never believed me until she was nearly a yr old as she was gaining weight. It is not true that all refluxers 'fail to thrive', some simply take enough in to help combat what they lose thro the sickness either with big feeds, or in my DD2's case, by feeding up to 18 x a day. Natasha (DD3) on the other hand, was simply worn out by the sickness and screaming that she just was unable to feed very often, and so did 'fail to thrive', losing weight regularly, so she was diagnosed at 3mths. Mind, that was after a particularly bad night of constant screaming (and bear in mind also that she had scream pretty much from day 1)(ooh, and she also had other issues anyway as she had been born with chicken pox, but I digress.....). Anyhoo....she had been screaming, like I said, and eventually thro sheer frustrastion on my part I ended up giving her 10mls calpol!
It helped tho......!!!!!!!
Following day I ended up at the docs in tears and they finally referred me......turned out her reflux was very severe. (in the worst 2% they had seen in a NT child!). She also had the silent reflux too, which was what was causing the pain.

Her treatment was first to have gaviscon, but she hated it with a passion and actually made her sickness worse. (she was fully BF, so had it syringed in). As she was worse, she ended up on cisipride, which is actually a horrid drug that was eventually withdrawn as of the side effects (but not before she had it for a year +).
they now do use better and more effective drugs for those that need it. My DD3 is now 7!

For now tho, things that help are :-

putting her to sleep propped up. either with a pillow under the cot, or in my case she slept in her car seat or pram.
letting at least an hour go before putting her down after a feed.
Try feeding slightly less, so her tummy isn't 'as full'. I know this is very hard to do with breast feeding tho, so may not be practical in your case.
eerrmmm......will think on it now and let you know more in the morning. There is a fab group out there called 'living with reflux UK'. I am a member, but haven't posted in ages as mine are 'better' as it were, altho i may be going back as Jacob (my DS2, who also had/has severe gastroesophical-reflux disease now seems to be having the bowel issues that can go with it too, diagnosed last friday) He is also milk intolerant. Ahh, thats another thing they may suggest, as they did it with me, and I ended up having to. I had to transfer all my refluxers onto a bottle with either soya for my DD's, and then prejomin for my DS2, as me cutting dairy from my diet had no decent effect or help[ for them. Something I hated doing, but it did mean that I could at least hand over the feeding and subsequent screaming to other family members and me escape......

Hope this helps some, and like I said, I will come back tommorrow when I have thought about how else I got thro it.

SittingBull - don't worry about missing it - Psycho would have been privvy to lots of info via Flamesparrow, who is in my postnatal thread.

She doesn't take any formula at the moment (refuses to drink from bottle or cup), although we have just been prescribed Nutramigen formula because of her milk intolerance. Not sure if we'll manage to get her onto it, or if we'll just use it for cooking at the moment.

Astrophe - sorry to hear that you are also having a hard time. Sounds like you might want to look into silent reflux and milk intolerance to see if his symptoms seem to fit. I had a thread fairly recently where CADS posted lots of useful links about milk intolerance - I'll see if I can find it for you in a minute.

Psychomum - thanks for posting instead of going to bed! I've been laying awake in bed since 3:30 this morning thinking about all of this! (DD still asleep - since 8:30 last night!)
I gave her some blueberries at breakfast time the other day, and a while later, when I was milking her before a nap, I could smell acid really strongly on her breath. It worried me at the time, as it reminded me of my brother's, which is apparently caused sometimes by his diabetes. Now it seems like another piece in a reflux jigsaw!!
I forgot to ask at what point they grow out of reflux, but having read your last post I'm now wondering if they actually do at all?

Now this is prob a daft question, but when in a cotbed, would I put a pillow on top of the mattress but under the sheet? I'm guessing there are pillows specifically designed for this type of use with babies - will go off on a hunt later.

Oh - gotta go - she's woken up - be back later (will find other thread for you then astrophe).

Astrophe - here

Cantsleep....

They can and do grow out of reflux, it all depends on the severity. Mine tecnically have, altho when poorly DD3 and DS2 are significantly worse sickness wise, which is somthing 'leftover' if you like from it. And then of course I didn't know until last week that then they could go on to have bowel problems later!!!! (am still cross about that, as it means that my normal paediatrician lied to me about it, tis my new doctor [dr. beatie, southampton], who told me!). I just thought that reflux babies can just continue to be 'silent refluxers', if anything. (I am one.....reflux baby myself, and now get silent reflux when under stress or eaten to much/eaten too much rich food. Nothing that needs meds tho..)

Pillow wise, yes that does sound ok, but if you want to buy anything, then a V shaped pillow can often be more helpful as you can shape it round baby, or wedge baby in, depending on your outlook!!!
Breastfeeding piilows are a good shape too, if you have one of them...
and yes, they can have smelly breath too

Their nappies can be quite foul too, mucusy or odd coloured, and very smelly.YUK!
And for me at least, you need to be very organised washing wise as mine would go thro up to 7 outfits a day. And yes, that would be even with bibs, as the sick would go under between their neck and the bib, or over with projectile!

Errrm....am still thinkin tho, so will be back again. AND....I got irate kiddies damanding to be fed too, and I am here already!!!!

OOh....forgot to say.....when they do start to grow out of it, they are normally over a year old, and walking. They may say it.s when they are more upright and even crawling, mine didn't then tho.....i could just find where they were by following the trail of sick!!!

I had another thread recently asking whether mucous in nappies was normal or not....

Found a site here which lists symptoms of silent reflux - she now sounds like a classic case (except for the failure to thrive bit)!

Very useful site if anyone else is following this thread and wants info on reflux.

Bought some infant gaviscon today - it says not to use for under 1 except with medical supervision, so you guys are now my doctors!! Given it to her twice so far but she threw it up a few mins later both times. Will try again later and tomorrow, but if she throws it up and doesn't seem any better then might as well stop and see if occasional calpol will help.

Have been feeding well before naps today, but have only just managed to get onto a 3 hour feed cycle (she was also a little and very often person) and reluctant to give it up (as that site suggests). Need to check my notes of what food I had given her on the day I started this thread, to see if it is one of the ones listed as being bad for babies with reflux - suspect she may have had broccoli, which is on the list. Also gave her cauliflower yesterday, which is on the bad list. Although frankly if I cut everything on their bad lists out of her and my diet then neither of us will be left with much that we can eat!!

Did you find that yours were better or worse (or the same) once weaned?

Counting my blessings to some extent that it is silent (if she does have it), as don't like the sound of all of the sick involved with your DCs - you must have been permanently exhausted with so many children with problems! DD was sick quite a lot, but that stopped as soon as I gave up dairy.

Hi

Both of mine were/are silent refluxers and cow's milk protein intolerant.

DS grew out his reflux at 5mnths, I started weaning him at 4mnths, it improved drastically.

DD (8mnths) is still on ranitidine (zantac) and has been spitting up more since she started crawling 2wks ago. We only started weaning her 3wks ago and have to proceed very slowing due to her intolerances, so she is still having a lot of milk, but hopefully will be able to reduce it soon. I increased her zantac dosage yesterday and everything is under control again.

I definitely found that we could not 'Gina Ford' our los and they were much better on EASY.

Silent reflux can be difficult to diagnose because a lot of GPs still think that reflux involves projectile vomitting and weight loss and aren't aware of SILENT reflux.

DS didn't get diagnosed till he was 14wks because our GP insisted he couldn't have reflux because he was thriving and it must be colic. Even then they didn't think medication was necessary because of his weight. The poor baby was clearly in pain, FFS.

Thankfully, with dd I was a lot more clued up and definitely feel they took me more seriously because she was my second. Sorry, completely unfair on first timers. But I have been there and know the feeling when doctors make you feel/think you are neurotic.

So, what I'm trying to say is, if your lo is in pain, please don't give up and insist on seeing a paed if your GP isn't helping.

There is an US reflux message board with lots of useful information and also covers the link between CMPI and reflux.

This page is particularly good.

www.infantreflux.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=853&PN=1&TPN=1

Take care
x

CSWS - Gaviscon contains calcium lactate which should be avoid if the person is either lactose or CMP intolerant (can't remember which one) but I will double check and get back to you. Might be the reason your dd is vomitting it up.

Also, I know the paed I see in South africa when I'm visiting my folks suggested using nurofen (rather than calpol) if ds was in a lot of discomfit because of the reflux. So if calpol doesn't help give it a try.

X

oops, got that wrong! Sorry!

Phew - checked the packet in a panic and couldn't see it listed, but thought maybe I was going mad! Didn't give her any after her last feed tonight, but I've got her settled at last, so hoping she can manage a long sleep again.

Think you are rapidly turning into my mentor CADS! To update you with her CMP diagnosis, paed has now prescribed Nutramigen based on what I told him, and has made appointment for us to see him in the middle of August.

I think I'll talk to h/v about reflux, and then either let her talk to GP, or wait and talk directly to paed when we see him. I seem to have been a regular topic of conversation amongst the staff at our village surgery already!

Have started having a look at that site, but will take me quite a while to fish through, so bookmarking for future browsing - thanks.

Fingers crossed that weaning will help DD. We have started, but I think maybe I should slow down on the speed at which I introduce new foods. I don't do more than 1 new food a day, but that sounds a bit quick having read the comments on one of the threads on that US site.

How is your DS btw - is he over his hand/foot/mouth disease?

Hi again

Thankfully, DS has completely recovered, thanks for asking. Glad it's over he has been very poorly in the past but I have to say this was the worst experience for both of us. Oh, the joys of nurseries. Luckily, dd didn't get it. Poor thing has enough of her own problems.

I would speak to your GP as soon as possible. Who cares what the surgery staff are saying. You are doing a fantastic job looking after your lo and I think you have both been through enough already. Believe me. I'm a regular at my GPs surgery. I think until you sort out the reflux, you will have more problems sorting out sleep and routine issues.

Well, that is the problem we had with ds because I never challenged the GP on the reflux and milk issues. Reflux was diagnosed at 14wks when he was in hospital for blood in his stools and the milk intolerance didn't get sorted till he was 13mnths.

I usually wait at least 3 days when introducing a new food. It can take up to 3 days for food to make its way through their system. I think I might increase the time to 5 days though because dd had a runny nappy after having oats for the 3rd time (day 3).

A lot of research I have done on food intolerances usually suggest try new foods for at least 1wk before introducing another. This obviously depends on how severe the intolerances are. Just worried because I never thought for one minute that dd could have such a problem with milk, especially as she is a big, fat, happy baby. We have had some issues with things like baby rice, carrot, pear and sweet potato, if you looked at her you wouldn't imagine for 1min that she had digestive issues.

BTW dd also has mucus in her nappy. It started when she was 6wks and has never gone away. The last time I saw our paed he told me to ignore it because she is thriving,etc etc, but I'm not completely happy with his advice. Our GP said the same but I might ask to see a paed gastro consultant if it doesn't go away by her next appt in Sept. Did you mention the mucus to your paed? What did he say?

We raise dd's cot by piling books under the legs at one end, instead of using the pillow method, that way the matress does sink/bend. Also, you need to raise the cot so that it is at 30degree angle or more. DD slept in her carseat until she was 5mnths even though the cot was raised.

Let me know how things go and I hope you get a chance to go through that link.

bye for now

my ds has ben diagnosed with reflux but i always thought reflux babies did not sleep well and mine sleeps almost too well. he also does not seem in pain or cry very much. confused emoticon

Oooh, there is so much here that CAD is mentioning that I have forgotten over time. My refluxers are now 10, 7 and 4 next week!!! It is amazing how quickly you do forget when you stop living it day to day.

Food and weaning wise, yes the advice to intro new foods one at a time on a 7 day basis is the best way to know whether your LO will react or not.
My now 7yr old DD was hell to wean......she actually had to be admitted into hospital for a month for me to recieve support while we weaned her as the pain she was in was horrendous and she also completely stopped pooing too. we had to adjust her meds and the timing of them to get to the place needed for me to be confident of coping. And to think she was my third child too.
Her best food, for less pain and also for weight gain was avocado, banana and pureed apple all mushed up together. I had a mouli(sp?) blender which was a fab kitchen item to prepare first baby foods, and prepped all natasha's food with it.
Only prob with that food is that is didn't keep well, as of the tendency of the fruit to go a hidious brown(yuk!!!). Also, the banana didn't strange things in the nappy region too.

It doesn't surprise me about your DD throwing up the gaviscon. My kiddies all did too, until they had changed over to bottles, with the gaviscon mixed in. Natasha, as I said before, then had other meds.

hope things begin to get better for you tho, and am glad you have found a site that lists the symptoms and some help. I have no clue of how to do links, but when I see flame next will get her to link you to the site i mentioned before.

xx

there you go CADS

oops why did i think CADS had just posed! sorry psychomum

Ok....readin thro the list, it seems that natasha's fave food was on the 'bad' list...!

Hey ho.....jsut shows how different all babies are and that what some are ok with, others clearly aren't.

will go read more now, but before I do, something else that mine slept well in was the baby swing. Natasha didn't have it, but both my boys did, and even max, altho not termed a 'refluxer' in the same way as the others, I now remember still did have to be on gaviscon for it. The only reason he wasn't diagnosed tho was as he didn't have the barium xray they often use to prove reflux (not the only way tho). the others all did!! I now think the docs just gave max the meds cos of the family history by that point.

xx

thanks bambboozle, and no worries for getting my name wrong.

can you find the link for 'living with reflux uk'???

groups.msn.com/LivingWithRefluxUK/_whatsnew.msnw

thats the web address, and thanks lots if you can

at my lack of ability

and babmboozle....all babies are different, as are all reflux babies too. be happy that he does sleep, as many don't.
Out of mine it was only natasha that was the worst sleeper. not that the others didn't have issues, just that they were different. All of them were different

Psychomum5's link

I've been following the thread, as I'm worried on csws behalf, but have no useful advice.

thankyou jasnem

someone kind

Thank you all - lots more info to have a look at.

Now that I've broken the habit of feeding her to sleep, nights are actually going quite well (hope that doesn't put a curse on them!) - she woke once last night at 11:45, but I got her back to sleep just after midnight, and she is still sleeping now. I even managed to stay asleep myself until 5:20 today, so 2 hours better than yesterday!

CADS - at the foods your DD had issues with - pear and sweet potato are favs here, and carrot seemed to go down well yesterday.

at reading about the tests to confirm reflux - they don't sound much fun for the baby.

Ooh - she's up - gotta go!