Could do with your opinions on this

[saltire]

Ds1's best friend - for the sake of this convo i'll call him Harry, is terrified of dogs. His mum told me once that they sat in the car once at a beach for three hours waiting for someone to lave with their dog before they could get out and enjoy their day.
Anyway DS1 and he have been taking it in turns to go to each others houses once a week. However i'm starting to find it really hard work. We have two old dogs, which i have to co-erce into kitchen before going to school, a job which can take up to ten minutes. When Harry and Ds1 get home, Harry immediately stands three steps up, with the stair gate shut, and takes his shoes and jacket off and hands them to me! Today it's beautifully and sunny and DS1 is desperate to go to go to the park but "Harry" won't go incase there's a dog there, or a dog goes past, or they meet a dog on the way there! So they ar eupstairs playing on the PS2, and DS1 is sulking!
Everytime i go in the kitchen, harry comes to the top of the stairs and calls down
"I hope you've shut the door". He runs into the living room for his dinner and shuts the living room door. When i come from kitchen to living room with plates of food he stands on his chair, just in case the dog follows me out the door.
Half and hour ago he was in DS's bedroom and looked out the window and saw DH walking along the path outside the garden taking dogs for a walk and he stood on DS1's bed, just in case
"They escape from DH and run upstairs to get me".
Anyway, its really stressful when he's here, i've fallen over the dogs in teh kitchen twice already and burnt myself. I'm really thinking of saying to DS1 not to invite Harry round again, because it so stressful for every one, including dogs, but i think that's really cruel and horrible on my part! And DS1 and Harry have been friends for years but he has only recently started coming to the house
What can i do though to make things easier for every one? Anyone whose had similar situations that could maybe help!

No advice but what a pain.
I think harry and his parents need Dr Tanya Byron to help them overcome this-- there's no way the parents should have let it get this bad

Not a brill situation at all
I dont think it is fair on the dogs or your ds
Are the parents of the boy seeking treatment for him?

how old is he? Sounds really bad, his parents should not have let him get so frightened, although it must be very difficult for them.

Don't really have any constructive advice, sorry.

As far as i know he had been to see a psychologist about it, who, after about three visits, suggested that they find someone with older, placid dogs, and gradually introduce the child to them, starting off with say 2minutes, building it up, but Harry wouldn't do it, and the day they were going to do it (they were using our dogs) he started hyperventiallating and screaming before they even left the house, so it never happened!

his parents need to not cater to this fear - I dont mean be cruel to him but this is doing HIM no favours. How old are the boys?

My DS1 and Harry are both 8

What I meant was they need to try to sort it out rather than just go along with it. He is either genuinely terrified which is very sad or he had realised it gets him attention.

could you speak to his parents and explain tht the boys aren't having fun because of this and ask if they have any advice or are willing to do anything to help? i think eenywifemum is right. if this carries on he will never be able to go anywhere alone when he's bigger. to help you, is it possible to keep the dogs on the garden?

Saltire - in your position I would knock these visits on the head. I have a dog and always put him outside when kids arrive just in case they're not comfortable (also cos the dog tends to make a fuss of visitors for 1st 5 mins). But there is no way I would put up with this kind of behaviour on a regular basis - it's your home fgs.

OK we have a dog and we have kids whose friends are scared of dogs. However they have a choice, they either come to our house, dog and all, or they don't. Yes I try to shut the dog away for the first few minutes until she is calm, but after that I won't.

Over time 3 or 4 friends who have come over, who don't like dogs have gradually got used to our dog.

If they want to come, the rules are dog is around. I refuse to pander to them. So if your son's freind wants to visit, it is dog and all.

This kid is definately in the throes of a huge problem, I assume his parents never take him to a park or anything.

I would explain to harry's mum that you are very happy with your ds and Harry being friends, and your ds can visit Harry if they want to invite him, but that you don't think Harry is being helped by visiting your house, as his fear seems to be getting greater, rather than improving, which is making it stressful for him.
That solves th immediate prob for you.

I wonder if Harry's family know anyone who has a Cavalier Spaniel? I have owned 2, and both helped children get over their fear of dogs, simply because cavvies are generally fairly gentle (even scatty ones like my current one).

This sounds like a real phobia and is not necessarily the parents fault that he is like this ... was he bitten as a toddler or anything?

My DS is terrified of dogs (but not at bad as this boy) and is only comfortable with certain friends dogs ... and it usually takes about 40 minutes in their houses before he calms down and relaxes. He was bitten as a toddler and tbh I would rather he was wary of dogs than wanted to pat every dog that he walked past as a friend's 4 year old was bitten in the face recently by a dog who was supposedly good with children.

It really sounds like a phobia rather than an attention seeking thing and I would suggest that you suggest to the parents that he can't come round anymore until they seek help for him to overcome it.

My DD is really frightened of dogs. She is only 2 though. She never used to be but we went to a wedding in Spain and the hotel had Bernese Mountain dogs and a very nippy/playful puppy that thought my kids were his play things when they ran around and put the fear of god into them.

I am trying to nip this fear in the bug and DS who is nearly 5 is almost back to his dog loving self but DD is still petrified.

This little boy must have had a bad experience surely? I am hoping by being psoitive and encouraging contact with friendly dogs DD will not be afraid but I must confess judging by her reaction so far I am concerned that her experience has made her fearful of them fullstop

My DD is really frightened of dogs. She is only 2 though. She never used to be but we went to a wedding in Spain and the hotel had Bernese Mountain dogs and a very nippy/playful puppy that thought my kids were his play things when they ran around and put the fear of god into them.

I am trying to nip this fear in the bug and DS who is nearly 5 is almost back to his dog loving self but DD is still petrified.

This little boy must have had a bad experience surely? I am hoping by being psoitive and encouraging contact with friendly dogs DD will not be afraid but I must confess judging by her reaction so far I am concerned that her experience has made her fearful of them fullstop

To my knowledge the child has never been bitten by a dog. His parents do take him to the park, there's one beside the school, very few people let their dogs loose in this park, but even if he sees one on a lead, a good few feet away then he runs to his mum, climbs on the bench beside and says
"I'll just stay here for a while, cos i'm hot, need a drink etc"
I actually think that he believes that his parents think he's ok about dogs, if that makes sense!

Wonder if his parents could take him to see some puppies or something? Smaller, cuter, less likely to nip etc - and build up from there?

I reckon this poor boy needs help to overcome this problem - I used to work in an office off a long corridor. One of the guys used to bring his very gentle, very old dog to work but one of the staff was so terrified of dogs that he couldn't go down the corridor unless the dog was shut in. He once was trapped in my office because the dog had stuck its head into the corridor and I have to say that although I tried to be sympathetic, it was quite ridiculous.

The fact that he's trying to deceive his parents makes it sound more like phobia than attention-seeking. But of course attention-seeking could have developed into a genuine fear. What abuot starting a sort of densitising programme? (Not you, obviously, it's the parents' responsibility.) Playing with toy dogs, reading books with lots of dogs, watching videos of Lassie and so on; then maybe going to a park where there are dogs but not in order to go into the park, just to watch them. And so geting the contact closer and closer without really challenging Harry. I wonder also whether it's really a good idea to tell him what's intended, as that just gives him a chance to get himself worked up beforehand.

Have his parents ever seen his behaviour at your house? I really think they need to. Of course you can't cope with this sort of thing every week.

I was afraid of dogs as a child and it was resolved by getting me my own puppy

From my conversations with his mum, she has a fear of dogs not as bad as his, but when he was younger she would cross the road to avoid them! His younger brother was shaping up the same way, but due to his friendship with a wee boys who has a dog, he's fine. he will sit and play with a dog, while Harry is standing on a bench or hanging on to his mum.
As i said in the OP it's getting really stressful for all of us,and whilst i realise hs obviously has a phobia, i don't want to be seen as a horrible person for banning him from coming to the house!

it seems like he has seen his mums behaviour and learnt that that is how people behave about dogs. if his mum does things to avoid contact with dogs he would have grown up thinking this was normal. i think the puppy idea sounds good and also the desensitising. maybe you could suggest those to his mum and say you think him coming over is a bit stressful and not very enjoyable for him, so maybe him and your ds should meet in places such as play areas, or the swimming pool or at his house until he is comfortable with your dogs.

this sounds like a very extreme phobia and one which should be tackled, because in reality it's ruining this little boy's life. Imo there is nothing wrong with having a healthy respect for dogs, especially those you don't know, but a fear that means you don't do anything is unhealthy. I agree the desensitising is a good idea, I do think though that you should speak to the boy's parents and explain just how severe this phobia is. I have a fear of flying, and I used to fly backwards and forwards to boarding school every term, and my parents never knew just how extreme my phobia was until a friend of my mum's came back on the same flight as me and witnessed it for herself and told my mum. My mum was horrified that she didn't have a clue. One other thought, is it possible to get someone from a dog charity to come and speak to his class perhaps? It's not unusual for schools to have visits from guide dogs for example (I went to talk to the little ones at ds' preschool last week), this would be a controlled environment, dog would be kept on lead and totally under control and would just be in the same room as this little boy, and might just help him to realize that dogs aren't all horrible. I went to toddler groups with my ds and my dog, and some of the kids would get a bit upset at the sight of my dog at first, but once they realized that she just led down on the floor and slept, they got used to her and most came to say hello in the end.

"his parents should not have let him get so frightened"

how exactly should they have stopped it?

Phobias can be extreme and are not rational. I think blaming the son's parents is really unfair. We have no idea what has caused this phobia and I am sure the parents are having a bloody awful time of it - do you think they would not rather he could get over this phobia?

Saltire it does sound an absolute pain and I can see why you would rather not have the hassle of it. However I think in the back of your mind you are assuming Harry has some control over it which I am sure he does not. Imagine if it was a physical disability instead of a mental one and see if you would feel differently about the extra work needed to have him play at your house. You would probably feel a lot less resentful because you would know that he could not help it.

It's up to you whether you can continue to have him round to play, of course, but I think it's very harsh to blame him or his parents for this, as some posters on the thread have done.

franny saltire did say though that the boy's mother would cross over the road to avoid dogs when he was younger, so this would indicate that the boy has learned the phobia from his mother. I agree that it's not his fault, but if the mother has that extreme a phobia of digs then she has played a part in her son having a phobia as well.

I don't call crossing the road to avoid dogs an extreme phobia.

I also don't see how the mother is supposed to avoid passing it on, if she did have an extreme phobia. These are genuine mental health problems we are talking about here, not just people being a bit awkward.