This is impossible! How does anyone make this work??

[Haddock73]

As soon as I get ds1 (2) down, ds2 (9days old) kicks off. I've been up since 2am and frazzled! Ds2 won't sleep, he's been up for hours now and I physically don't know how to do this without dh being here!

Ds1 feels neglected, haven't bonded with ds2 because I feel resentful of him crying and crying and CRYING all the time nd taking me away from ds1, then I hate myself for feeling this way.

Crying and crying and feel like I can't cope and made a huge mistake.

When will it get better??

[FixItUpChappie]

Sorry Haddock you had another tough day.

What is your DH offering up? I did all the night feeds for DS1 but told DH straight away that would not happen this time as with two there is no opportunity to sleep during the day and every human needs some sleep not just those being paid. Can you split the night up so you each get a chunk of time... He takes 9pm-2:00, you take 2:00-7:00am or some such? Is there no way he can spread out some vacation days so he's taking one day off a week for a time? this at least makes your weeks a bit shorter to start.

you don't have to go to a library or social situation to start....what about a morning and afternoon walk instead...that's less pressure. all DS1 really needs is excessive and fresh air - sit in the middle of a field with baby and let him run about, kick a ball etc. Do you have a backyard? there is lots you can do with a back garden...sandbox, Mud kitchen, give DS1 a spray bottle with water and let him go to town.

is DS1 tantruming specifically or did he seen off all day? one thing that works well with our DS1 is little hand-checks with a marker when you notice good behaviour. also I am not ashamed to say that I have a little container of chocolate buttons in my purse that I use sometimes to head off tantrums when leaving a place etc.

does Ds2 respond to white-noise? sometimes the only way I could get mine to drop off in early days was to run the shower for a few minutes while baby sat in his bouncer on bathroom floor..the steam plus the white-noise always worked a charm.

hang in there Haddock!! there are always people around to talk

[FixItUpChappie]

That should say excessive not excessive

[FixItUpChappie]

okay IPAD stop autocorrecting exercise to excessive!!!

[valiumredhead]

I had chocolate buttons too in my bag,'mummy's secret chocolate'

I don't know what your HV is like but I had some shockingly bad ones so be very clear when you say you aren't coping. Don't fudge sound the issue, tell her straight. One midwife told me I wouldn't have time for pnd as I'd be too busy with the baby


Wrt library, personally I'd just do walks and the park every single day. Fresh air is what you all need and it doesn't matter of anyone cries then as it never sounds as loud out side

Hope it goes well with the hv and that today is better

PS see the doctor about your throat! X

[HPsauceonbaconbuttiesmmm]

Hi haddock, just wanted to say I hope the HV is useful to you today and really listens. Yesterday sounds awful, but you survived. That's another one down on the way back to normality. You're a great mum because you care.

[bigkidsdidit]

Agree fresh air. We go to a big park where I can walk down with baby in sling so he falls asleep, then DS1 runs himself half daft. I take the pram and put DS1 in it to come home and I'm only very slightly ashamed to say I bribe him with digestives to get in it and sit quietly!

When we get home it's out in the garden till a late lunch. After all that exercise I then out on a Disney DVD and DS1 is usually out like a light on the sofa for a few hours while I play with baby and MN on the iPad.

[GetYourSocksOff]

I agree that fresh air is the answer. The biggest, safest place you can find. Even if you're knackered.

Last night after work, I picked DS up from school (he's just started, he's only just 4) and he had the biggest tantrum I'd ever seen because he wanted a poo but would only go at home. He screamed all the way back in the car and there was nothing he'd let me do. We had to pick DD up on the way by which time he was getting hysterical. It was a complete nightmare until we got into the house and he could go. At which point DD took over, wouldn't be put down, screamed because I tried to put her in high chair to make their dinner, screamed when I gave her dinner (still not sure why), stopped when I put her on my knee but started again because I wouldn't let her spoon her own yoghurt unless she sat in high chair (carnage). By which point I had a bit of a tantrum myself and then hated myself for being so crap.

And it all started again this morning because I had to get the three of us out by 7 bloody 15.

I thought I was pretty good at this when I just had one. And I teach - a class of 30 grumpy teenagers does not cause me a problem. But there are days when I find this really, really hard. Honestly, it's not just you. But we do have lots of lovely times too. It's an emotional roller coaster.

[bouncysmiley]

Can you involve ds1 in looking after ds2 and male it a game - we need to change the baby can you hold the wipes, we need to feed the baby can you sing him a song/ read a story with mummy? May not work but might buy you half an hour of sanity. You sound like you are doing a great job btw.

[Apileofballyhoo]

I think your baby may have reflux and he is possibly in pain and exhausted. You are doing fine, you need sleep and kindness. Did DS1 cry/scream so much? All very well for people to cope when their babies are not screamers and sleep in between feeds. for you.

[Haddock73]

The HV was awful. She said she was running late so couldn't talk to me about my pnd concerns, and told me to speak to the GP instead. She ushered me out with tears in my eyes.

Shall I make a GP appointment or ask to see a different HV?

[Haddock73]

Today ds2 napped for a total of 3 hrs...that's far to little sleep. He cried so much he is never without tears in hs eyes. It makes me so sad.

I try everything we went out today for 4 hrs, 4 hrs I was trying to get him to sleep while entertaining ds1, I tried the ergo also. He just won't sleep in the day! He's always exhausted and I don't have the time to get him to nap, I used to rock or feed ds1 to sleep and hold him in m arms to sleep but I don't have that luxury th time.

I worry all this angry, tired, chaud ted crying to the point he's hoarse will cause him long them damage. It's basically like CIO but not on purpose!

[Haddock73]

Should read "exhausted" not chaud ted

[Mumzy]

Haddock just to say we've all been there and know how hard the early days are. Mine are now 12, 10 and 8 but reading your posts brings it all back. I found the majority of mums I met through various groups were in a similar situation and just talking to others going through the same thing incredibly helpful. Also people were very kind and offered to hold the baby so i could take ds1 to loo or got me a drink and cake just little things which made a real difference to the day.

[Mumzy]

Haddock just to say we've all been there and know how hard the early days are. Mine are now 12, 10 and 8 but reading your posts brings it all back. I found the majority of mums I met through various groups were in a similar situation and just talking to others going through the same thing incredibly helpful. Also people were very kind and offered to hold the baby so i could take ds1 to loo or got me a drink and cake just little things which made a real difference to the day.

[Antidote]

Both. Make appointments for both, and make a video of your little one crying. I agree with the poster who suggested reflux. Can your DH take a half day of leave to come with you?

I am fuming at your hv. What an unprofessional thing to do.

[Mumzy]

I think you should see a GP if you don't have a regular GP ask a friend or the receptionist for the most sympathetic one they've got and tell them it's an emergency so you will be fast tracked.

[valiumredhead]

Ime hv's are a waste of time, seriously shit, I'm sure some are good, if fact I know some are but honesty some are useless and clueless about pnd.

Ring up first thing tomorrow and ask for an emergency appt, they release appts about 8 am on the day, it IS an emergency now as the hv has failed you.

Tell your gp everything you have said on this thread, do NOT gloss over things and say things are ok. Also tell your gp you tried to talk to the hv . She should've done an Edinburgh scale for depression at the very least.

Good luck x

[LittleBearPad]

Phone the GP and ask for an emergency appointment for you. Explain to the receptionist as much as you can.

Also make an appointment with a GP re reflux.

It will get better, I promise. If you want a (hopefully) friendly face to talk to do let me know.

[autumnqueen]

Haddock

Having suffered pnd for the last 2 years, now recovering (off meds and feeling much better) I can totally relate to your experience of these early days.

My advice would be

• rule out reflux with GP re the crying
• please please don't feel like a failure, or feel any stigma from the possibility of having pnd. I'm also in my 30s, homeowner, career etc etc and through counselling and treatment I have learned it is not about your ability to cope. It is about an illness caused by levels of chemicals in your brain. It can and does literally happen to anyone.
• it IS impossible with 2 under 2 if your children are especially lively / do not sleep / do not settle / have reflux etc, and mums who seem to cope may well have kids with an easier temperament (or may be pretending to cope)

Posters have excellent advice on this thread, advice which I wish I had had (and taken) when my children were the age of yours.

No matter how tough it gets, look after yourself in whatever way helps you to stay calm and relaxed.
Wishing you all the best.

[plantsitter]

Late to this thread just to lend support and sympathy. It is SO HARD and everyone with a similar age gap has agreed with me - so whatever you think you are doing brilliantly if you're all OK at the end of the day.

I'm in SE London and have some kid free mornings. If you are nearby i would be happy to help out by letting you get some kip or meeting you at a playgroup to hold the baby while you play with ds1.

Can only repeat: it gets better.

[kohl]

Have been following your thread-your HV is a mammoth twat. Get an emergency GP appointment tomorrow. Definitely get them to rule out reflux.
I'm in central/West London, have some childfree mornings and can come over/meet you/whatever might help.
It is a shitty shitty time, there is loads of great advice on here. You're not alone. Will keep my fingers crossed for a good outcome at the GP tomorrow.

[HPsauceonbaconbuttiesmmm]

YY I agree. Make an emergency appt tomorrow, don't let them fob you off with one in 2 weeks time. You waited for the HV and she failed you spectacularly. Maybe one day when you're stronger you can report her and save someone else. In the meantime never see her again, insist on someone else and tell them why.

Make an appt for dc2 and a double apt for you, back to back. That'll give you 3 appts worth of time and you're going to need it. Make sure it's with a sympathetic GP, worth waiting a few days for that, you really don't need another knock back. FWIW DC2 does seems to be crying a lot and where this may be normal it is worth getting him checked over and maybe trying reflux meds. Or if you got on well with your midwife, give them a ring and tell them the HV was hopeless and can they help you get an emergency apt or give you advice.

Also maybe contact the surestart centre near you. They'll know the places to access help too.

Have you used a dummy by the way? Or a white noise cd played really loud? Sorry, I'm sure you'll have tried that by now.

Don't worry about the crying causing long term harm. The evidence is fairly sketchy even for CIO (which I'm not a fan of) but you're not leaving him, he's just crying and you're doing your best, that's very different.

Don't worry about doing things right or wrong, just keep getting through the days. Deep breathe and focus on surviving the night, you're doing brilliantly.

[nextphase]

For me, it was the HV who mentioned PND, and sent me to the GP.

So, I'd ring the GP, but see if you can get a sympathetic one 'cause otherwise they are as bad as your HV who needs shooting

Keep posting.

[dimsum123]

Haddock my offer to come and help out still stands. PM me if you would prefer. x

[Tillyscoutsmum]

Haddock - reading your posts has brought back so many memories of my early days with dc2. He cried constantly. He never slept enough. He was a hideous, over tired mess and I was so resentful and guilty about my dd not getting any attention. It was horrendous

A few things:-

You are not alone. A lot of people struggle. Some babies are more difficult than others. It's not your fault. You're not doing anything wrong!

Make an appointment with the GP ASAP. My HV was hopeless. She kept just telling me some babies cry more than others and implied I was making a mountain out of a molehill. My GP sorted me out (I had pnd). She properly looked for reasons why ds was crying all the time (he had treatment for silent reflux. He has treatment for oral thrush which the HV missed. He had a double war infection which HV also missed). Things improved gradually. I started to mix feed from 8 weeks (partly because I wanted/needed dh to
Do some of the night feeds and I was too exhausted to express. Partly because I thought he was hungry. He was a huge baby and I could only feed one sided) and things continued to improve. I bought one of those fisher price swing things, gave him a dummy and a comforter and he started sleeping more.

I don't which of those things helped - he's 3 and half now and he's still... Errrmmmm.... Strong willed so I suspect some of it is just his personality.

Try and get some friends to help. I know it's overwhelming now - but make it a medium term plan. Does you ds have friends at nursery? Can you make friends with any of the mums there? Even if they can just come round for a coffee - it will give your ds someone to play with and you someone to chat to without even leaving the house.

Good luck. It does get better. I promise Seeing my 2 together now is so lovely and I know I didn't make a mistake having a second. Took me a while and a lot of tears though x