This is impossible! How does anyone make this work??

[Haddock73]

As soon as I get ds1 (2) down, ds2 (9days old) kicks off. I've been up since 2am and frazzled! Ds2 won't sleep, he's been up for hours now and I physically don't know how to do this without dh being here!

Ds1 feels neglected, haven't bonded with ds2 because I feel resentful of him crying and crying and CRYING all the time nd taking me away from ds1, then I hate myself for feeling this way.

Crying and crying and feel like I can't cope and made a huge mistake.

When will it get better??

[pongping]

I'm sorry to that you are still finding things so difficult. Please talk to your MW/HV as soon as possible. They absolutely will not worry about your parenting - they will just want to help you.

Sleep - have you tried co-sleeping? I've been doing it with DS2 since birth. DH does all night wakings and early mornings (and at the point you're at all bedtimes) for DS1.

Slings - for me the Ergo was more use for a slightly older baby. Definitely worth trying a few more to find the right type. DS1 liked the Wilkinet and DS2 a stretchy wrap.

Bonding - having had PND with my first and bonding didn't happen immediately. For me it was part of my illness, and when that was treated our bond began to develop to the point where I quickly loved him dearly.

Big hugs

[BusyCee]

Poor Haddock. You sound so sad and anxious. You definitely need to speak to your HV and take any and all help you can get. Pregnancy is hard work. Childbirth is hard work and takes time to recover from. Having a toddler and a newborn is extraordinarily hard work. Please accept this and give yourself a break, be kind to yourself, know it takes time to settle down and that this is just a phase and WILL pass.

If it helps I have 3yo DS1 and 8wk DS2. Felt physically much worse after birth this time and for about 3wks didn't feel any attachment to DS2 - just didn't feel like he was mine. Masses of guilt about DS1 too (see my other post about inappropriate giggling...). And of course add an extra layer guilt on top of all the above because that's often what we mothers do when we fail to meet our own high standards

What helped me through? Just take them out. Strangers are very kind. They talk to you. And to the DCs. Old ladies love to reminisce and will commiserate with you about how hard it is. Women at supermarkets will stop your oldest DC when they make a bid for freedom and you can't catch them. Other mothers will help you with eldest when you're in the park. People are mainly very kind and supportive.

Let eldest DC help. Fetch nappies. Sing to newborn. Cuddle on the sofa etc. gives you something to so together and helps bonding for all of you

When the screaming gets to total fever pitch, bath them both together. Can alleviate the noise, fill an otherwise empty hour and give you more bonding time.

Accept your standards will drop through the floor. You can write your name in the dust at our house. DS1 has had more treats as well as tellings off than usual. DS2 isn't getting the gold standard newborn care that DS1 got. But, we're all surviving and now smiling at each other...it does get easier

...and know that too. Your new DC is tiny, and changing all the time. In a short time (although I know it's seems forever away now) sleep will be more regular. You'll find some sort of routine that works for you. DC2 will be reacting more and so you'll get a bit more back.

Please be kind to yourself. Accept any and all help. Trust in yourself. And keep posting. Good luck x

[FixItUpChappie]

sorry your having a hard time OP....I have a 6 month old and DS1 was 2.4yrs when baby arrived. it took time to find my footing but now I feel really able to manage both children relatively well (most of the time).

remember when you had your first?...how you stretched as a human being - doing more than you ever thought possible, on less sleep with newfound patience etc? It turns out that when you have another you stretch even more!! who knew we were so pliable?! we are though - just be kind to yourself. it will come. you are all just getting readjusted, getting to know each other still.

Early days my DS1 was treated to a lot of buckets on our kitchen floor...whenever I needed to entertain him and have a cuppa I'd throw down a special bin on a shower curtain on the floor - filled with all sorts:
Bucket of dinosaurs, bucket of water, bucket of sand, bucket of shaving foam, bucket of dry pasta, bucket of cooked pasta, bucket of corn starch and water, bucket of rice, bucket of plastic bugs hidden in sand and a pair of tweezers, bucket of art supplies, bucket of cars, bucket of buckets....you get the idea.

2 year olds love to help....get yours to help with everything remotely possible. my 2 year old is especially good at scrubbing the bottom kitchen cabinets when handed a little bucket, scrub brush and sponge. he is an expert at chucking then laundry in the washer and helping me push all manner of buttons. he loves to help me sweep, vacuum etc...just take the pressure off getting things done and focus more on keeping it light and fun.

put the TV on as needed. try to save it when possible for when baby is napping/going down for a nap.

DS2 slept in a Moses basket at night but in his crib during the day. I simply could not devote hours to rocking him to sleep like I did DS1....I got him a Cloud B Aqua turtle which is miraculous.....and a white noise machine which is equally so. getting him used to his crib early was very useful as about a month in noise from DS1 playing would disturb him when I'd just let him drop off in his bouncy chair in the living room. ow ever having more noise around has I believe resulted in DS2 being an all around much better sleeper.

get outside at least once a day...a walk, the park, a class, a field - wherever. do so with the kids....but your DH needs to step up too and help you get out on your own if even for short periods frequently.

hoping things turn around for you soon OP x

[FixItUpChappie]

I just wanted to echo the sentiment that you shouldn't be afraid to speak to your HV....PND is very common. it is an illness not a moral judgement on your capacities.

[CitizenOscar]

What strikes me is that you're doing it all by yourself. It's hard and you need help.

I'm doing the same as you although a few weeks on, but I have help and that makes it possible.

What's important for me is getting help with DS1 so I feel he's getting the attention he needs (as well as getting fed, clothed etc) and I can focus on feeding DS2 without resenting him for being demanding.

Is there more your DP can do? Mine gets DS up & dressed before he goes to work (DS1 is an early riser). He also does all night wakings with DS1. He also does bath & bed most nights but I know that's not practical for everyone. My mum also helped with bath & bed when DP not available in very early days.

What about family & friends? My MIL comes over once a week & takes DS1 out for the afternoon to park/library. Is there anyone who could do that? Perhaps after DS has been to nursery so you get a full day to yourself & the baby.

Also, company from people who understand. Do you have any friends with children? Either one or two (or more)? Can you arrange to meet up either at each others home or at the park? The toddlers could play together & maybe even have tea together (especially if your friend only has the toddler or perhaps an older baby so has more hands free at mealtimes).

Small soft play places where DS can play mostly on his own while you supervise & encourage but can sit nearby with baby. There are a couple in SW London where I live. Also playgroups (NCT & children's centre).


Finally - it will get better. DS2 is 9 weeks now and although it's still hard work it's so much better than the first few weeks.

[CountryMama]

You have been given good advice so I won't chip in with m

[Haddock73]

Thank you all...I've beenup since 3am as ds2 woke then amd by th timei settled him ds2 woke at 5am. My throat is killing me as I'm unwell and poor ds1 has been watching cartoons since 5am.

I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel. Is my bleakness. I feel resentful amd guilty at the same time.

I will do my best to get out as much as possible.

I have no rl support as except dh. I have friends but none have children and all work in the week and and rarely visit on weekends (every 6 months or so). My family have been very vocal about ds2 being a mistake as they felt I wouldn't cope.

I'm married, in my 30s, homeowner and have a career - I thought I could handle two children. Looks like they were right. Mother and sister go months without speaking to me, they have no intention of helping in anyway.

I do have lots of playgroups and activities in the area, and there is group for pnd onmondays I could attend, although dont know if I technically have it. The first step is talkin to someone besides dh.

[CountryMama]

.....more. (Sorry bad mobile skills!)
But I've just gotten through this difficult stage and I wanted to say that it gets better but you must relax and ask for help. I have found that having 2 so close together is making me slow down and not worry so much about being the perfect mother. Cbeebies was a life saver in the early days. Slings worked wonders. But you've got to find your own way of doing things. Have low expectations of your days. Even getting dressed isn't essential!!! Use your friends/family and health professionals... That's the most important thing!

[CountryMama]

I'm cross with your family saying you won't cope. You will and you'll be fabulous. Take each day as it comes.

[pongping]

Can you go back to bed now?

Where in London are you? Bet there's an MNer nearby who could help you out.

[Dressingdown1]

OP please try to find out from GP or HV about Home Start. I used to be a volunteer and they can help you a lot . A CRB checked volunteer will come to your home once or twice a week and help with DCs, playing with DC1, nursing DC2, helping you take them out to the park, etc, whatever you want really.

I did it because I had had PND myself and found the early months tough with just one DC and wanted to help other Mums in that situation. Like you I was scared to tell my HV how I felt in case they took DS away (they didn't!)

[HPsauceonbaconbuttiesmmm]

Definitely go to the pnd group on the Monday or phone and ask if worried. They'll be other mum's there suffering too who can point you in the direction of help and just reassure you that you're not alone and it will get better.

Sorry your family are so rubbish. Definitely better without them. How horrible. Your dc2 is not a mistake. It just takes some adjusting to. You will look back and be a much stronger mummy after this short but v shitty time.

Hang on in there.

[dimsum123]

Whereabouts are you OP? I can help out if you would like? x

[CitizenOscar]

Sorry your family is so rubbish. What a horrible thing to say. They are NOT right. This is a difficult stage: you're recovering from birth, adjusting to life with 2 kids, you're tired & run down, and small babies are naturally demanding. But you WILL get through it.

Is DH's family any help? I always feel awkward asking them as not MY family (and we don't get on that well) but if they can take DS out for an afternoon or even come & play with him at home while you go upstairs for a lie down with baby, then could be worth it.

Try going to a couple of groups on a regular basis. The pnd one would be a great start. If you go back to the same groups you'll see the same people each week & familiar faces really help. You might make friends that you can meet up with but even if you don't, a friendly smile & someone who recognises your children and can interact with them will really help. And they'll all sympathise with what you're going through, if you talk to them.

Are you managing to eat & drink? If not, can DH make you a sandwich before he goes to work & leave it in the fridge for you to eat during the day? And bring you some toast & juice (for example) before he leaves? You need lots of energy to help you through, especially if you're sleep deprived, so eating is really important. Cereal bars and bananas! Breastfeeding is dehydrating too so try to have a bottle of water with you.

In terms of keeping older child occupied at home: sticker books, imaginative games (toy food, kitchen, tea set, dolls, etc) that you can join in with while sitting & feeding, DVDs, cbeebies, iPhone/iPad, musical instruments & songs.

It is hard. It will get better. You need some help to get through this bit. It will get better.

Agree with pp that older child can adjust to playing independently - I'm very guilty of intervening too much and he is getting better at playing alone.

[CitizenOscar]

Also, even though your friends work, do you have a good friend who you could tell you're struggling and see if they have time to pop round after work for a hug and just be an extra pair of hands for an hour? People do sometimes have days off or half days TOIL or something and nothing much to do with them. If they know how much you'd appreciate a visit, they might come.

Hugs to you.

[clabsyqueen]

Haddock - if you want company to walk the streets then I'm very central London. I have a 4 week old and a 2 year old I asked my DP if we could put our DD2 up for adoption last week. I felt so utterly unable to cope. Guilt overwhelms me about DD1 and I miss her so much. I have handed over all bedtime routines to friends/DP/ grandparents as I CANNOT do it with a screaming child in a sling. DD2 Screams from 6-10pm without fail. Colic given as an explanation but colic usually just means 'newborn' and treatment usually involves waiting til they get older. Crying peaks at 6-8 weeks apparently. Sounds like a lifetime but in the grand scheme its not long. My friend recommended a book called Buddhism for mothers and I have snatched some minutes to skim read it. I sobbed on the first chapter - its so wonderful. Very very relevant for mothers like us. Please PM if you want to take a chance on a blind-date!

[pongping]

If you are in SW London, I can easily get to Wimbledon, Clapham, Waterloo, Victoria - could use my 6mo DS2 to demonstrate that it does get better :)

Clabsy - offer stands for you too :)

[dimsum123]

OP it may be difficult, I know I found it impossible, but you need to ask for help from any likely source, even a next door neighbour. I find it easier to ask for help now but years ago found it impossible as I felt it made me a failure as a parent.

[Haddock73]

Thank you everyone, your offers of help are beyond generous and very very kind.

Dh returns to work today and it'll be my first full day alone...plusi have a thumping headache, sore throat, and virtually lost voice. Ds2 is up so I am hoping I'm not up at 2am for the day.

I will update tonight and let you know how it went today. Feeling very scared.

ciabsy and ping pong thank you so much for your kind offers. I'm going to see how I ge on alone for a few days and then if I'm brave enough perhaps try and ventre out to meet other mums. Everything seems so overwhelming atm.

Again, can't thank you all enough for your support and advice. I'm going to seek help today about the potential pnd.

[DropYourSword]

I absolutely promise you that the midwives and health visitors will not think you are an unfit mother. They will see that you are finding things tough right now and will help you to make things better.

[Notafoodbabyanymore]

Haddock I only remember the first couple of months with DD1 as a kind of a blur. And that was with just one! This second time has been easier, actually, because I didnt have PND. My point is, PND is an illness, not a reflection on your parenting skills or coping skills. Just an unfortunate consequence of some births/circumstances.

You are stronger than you suspect and you will get through this. And you will love both of your precious kids with all of your heart.

[madmomma]

Mine were 14m apart and those first weeks were like a nightmare - just unbelievably stressful. I was convinced I'd made a terrible mistake. It's natural to feel like this and it will get much much easier. You just become a machine

You are not doing anything wrong.

[nextphase]

Haddock
How are things today? And what did the HV say?

Thinking of you

[FixItUpChappie]

Hey Haddock - I've been thinking about you and hoping things are turning around.

May I suggest keeping your pace slow - I think its important to learn to dawdle. When you go for a walk don't hustle like a lawyer on lunch-break.....dilly-daddle - this is a helpful strategy I find that can be applied all day. In the morning - read a story, do a little of this, a little of that - no pressure...you've got a whole day to fill

Sometimes on really bad days in the beginning I'd take the kids to the grocery store then for a "drive" because everyone would fall asleep after-which I would just drive around listening to the radio.

Whatever works!!!!

Hope its going well