This is impossible! How does anyone make this work??

[Haddock73]

As soon as I get ds1 (2) down, ds2 (9days old) kicks off. I've been up since 2am and frazzled! Ds2 won't sleep, he's been up for hours now and I physically don't know how to do this without dh being here!

Ds1 feels neglected, haven't bonded with ds2 because I feel resentful of him crying and crying and CRYING all the time nd taking me away from ds1, then I hate myself for feeling this way.

Crying and crying and feel like I can't cope and made a huge mistake.

When will it get better??

Hi Haddock - I hope today went OK. Just wanted to say that DD2 and DS1 are two years apart and I struggled a lot at the beginning as well. Now, DS1 is nine months old, not so fragile and so, so fascinated by DD2. They sit in the bath together and splash and laugh, he wants to crawl to her even more than he wants to climb up/out of/into things (which he wants to do very much), and if he hears her voice, he calls out. Always.

In other words, please don't worry about having less time for your DC1. My DD1 was an only child for the first 7 years, we had loads of time for her. Life was peaceful, calm and structured, but she longed for a sibling. If you asked her now, she'd surely say that she would have traded all that individual attention for a brother/sister nearer her own age.

So, remember It gets better quicker than you think. Also, go to GP, just in case its PND, and hand your crying baby to DH in the night sometimes. You need sleep too.

Hi Haddock, I've not read the whole thread but I relate to so much of what you've written, this was me a year ago. The exhaustion, the guilt, the tears (and the fucking awful supermarket trip).

I just wanted to say that it honestly does get better. I've struggled with having a second, not least because of the pain I associate with becoming an older sister when my brother came along. And I've found it more difficult than I ever imagined. DS has struggled and that's made it very painful, too.

BUT. 15 months on and the good outweighs the bad. I would definitely have scored MUCH higher in a parent observation when it was just me and DS, but our lives are even richer now. DD is brilliant and such a character, she doesn't take any shit from DS and although it was easier before (on many levels), I wouldn't send her back for the world.. For the first time, I now know that if I could go back, knowing what I know now, I'd do it again.

I can also relate to having nobody around who can help out, family no good and friends all in more or less the same position as me. I didn't find a magic answer, but you're not alone and it will get easier, I promise.

At the risk of rambling (even further) I just wanted to add OP that my 2.9 year old and my 7 month old were cuddling in bed today when DS1 cuddled into his brother to say "littlefixit you are my best friend" and then proceeded to give him a big kiss and hug.

You have nothing to feel guilty about for giving your children siblings - what a wonderful gift! I know, I know they will be arguing in no time

Thank you everyone, I didn't see the HV today as they cancelled my appointment and moved it to Wednesday.

Today was the first day dh was back at work and it actually went a lot better than I expected. Ds2 napped very well in the morning which helped a lot, and they even both napped at lunchtime at the same time! In the afternoon I ventured to the shops wit them both and this is where it went to pot a bit - ds1 was good as gold bar one tantrum, but ds2 screamed out of exhaustion from 3.30pm - 9pm.

He was fed constantly and kept dropping off but then waking again. I even had people come up to me and as if ds2 was hungry and me having to pretend like I wasn't stressed, even though I felt like crying he was screaming so loudly and so angrily.

It was raining heavily so I couldn't pick him up in the street as well. Dh came home at 7pm when ds1 was in bed and then made dinner but at that point I couldn't really eat and just fell asleep as soon as ds2 settled at 9pm for 3 hours. It's now 2.32am and have been up since midnight - have a horrible sore throat and chesty coug, thumping headache and sore eyes, so am sure being ill doesn't help the situation.

I cried a lot less today but mainly because I knew dh wasn't there today and I had to be strong for the children. I still felt crap but was better at hiding it.

Ds1 broke my heart because he basically had to listen to ds2 scream all afternoon. At bedtime he cried and said "baby keeps crying". Feel so sorry for him.

You poor, poor thing. Well done on getting through the day.

Will DH get up with ds1 in a few hours to let you sleep?

Don't worry about the crazy people in the shops, if they don't offer to help they aren't nice people. You did great getting out at all.

Your ds1 sounds like a lovely boy, and he won't remember any of this. Neither will ds2.

PS I'm in not quite the same boat with DS (nearly 3) and DD (1 week).

Luckily so far DD hasn't been much of a screamer but DS has been difficult. I've had a c section so am pretty much house bound until I can either drive or be confident DS isn't going ri try to kill himself on his scooter!

I feel for you, really. DS1 is also small and most kids go through this with the arrival of a sibling. The attention that he was getting, all for himself earlier, is now divided and it's normal the way he's feeling. There's also no doubt that DS2 needs most of your time. It is not easy to find that balance. But we have to. Try doing some little things for a start. When ds2 nees you and that has to take you away from ds1, take him along to the baby and make him feel important. Let him help you in whatever small ways he can. When he feels he's in it with you, this will change. He shouldn't feel neglected which is what's making him resentful. This can be so exhausting for you, so like someone else said get a friend or a family member's help if you can, once in a while. It helps. Kids grow up real fast, before we know it, so in answer to your last question, this will change soon. It has to.

I recognize all these feelings and I had the one child only!

I think you should make an emergency gp appt and get seen asap not hang around for your hv who will just tell you to make an appt anyway.

Sympathetic hugs x

Sweetheart, you are not alone. You are not an unfit mother.

Nobody is "good" at the newborn-and-toddler stage. We all struggle. Because it is fucking horrendous.

Your DH needs to ensure that you get a couple of hours unbroken sleep every night. Work out the most likely few hours that they will be asleep and plan to kip on sofa / spare room with earplugs. Unless he is a heart surgeon or a lorry driver, him going to work a bit tired is not the end of the world.

I know it can seem so impossible to ask for help - but it's not weak to need support! We are simply not meant to raise small children alone like this. Be honest with your MW, HV, GP. They are not going to judge you, it is their JOB to make sure you get some support.

The screaming and crying can be relentless. Have you got a double buggy? You need one, cheapie second hand eBay or whatever. Strap both children in, put on comfy shoes, then EARPHONES. Loud music. Radio. Anything. They are safe even if they are crying and you get fresh air and headspace. The SECOND they fall asleep sit down, have a coffee, enjoy the quiet.

Otherwise a safe space for each child at home. Stairgated child-proof bedroom / cot for DC1 and Moses for DC2. When you are overwhelmed it is better to make sure everybody is safe and take a break for ten minutes.

Are you eating and drinking enough? It's so easy to forget. Glass of water and small snack every couple of hours. When you're so tired you need to keep your blood sugar up.

If DC1 spends seven hours a day watching CBeebies for the next three months, then don't worry, that's what it takes sometimes.

Try and be brave enough to ask for help. A baby group or neighbours. I think most people who have been through this stage would lend you a hand for a few hours!

It seems like this will never get better but it will, I promise. In a few weeks dc2 will start to be more entertained by DC1 than by anything you can do! Then DC2 will start sitting in a bouncy chair - then on the floor - suddenly you have two children playing together and all of this seems like a terrible nightmare.

Thank you all...I feel o pathetic not being able to handle two small children. Other mums I see in the street make it look so easy and when I speak to them and ask how things are going either they're lying or it's really not that hard for them. To me this is a nightmare.

I don't think t helps that I'm unwell and lost my voice as well. I could really use a day recovering and drinking lemsip. It actually makes me miss work - at least. Could recover in a comfy big office chair there(!)

I'm going to try all your suggestions and am determined to have a better day today. A, seeing the HV tomorrow and will flag up how I'm feeling and the bouts of uncontrollable crying and see what she says.

I really appreciate the time you have all taken to help and support me on here. Makes me feel less alone.

Sometimes they're lying, sometimes they're lucky! It's nothing you've done or not done. My screamer was my first, dd however is relatively easy so I've not found it too bad most days. If they had been the other way round I would be in the depths of despair by now, truly. You are not pathetic, not even close. EVERYONE has at least some horrific days with a baby + toddler. If they say its all roses, you know here lying.

Take some regular paracetamol, get out for a walk, then stick a picnic rug on the floor in the house for dc1 and cuddle up on the sofa with dc2. Movie day. Have popcorn, cake, hot chocolate, anything that makes you feel remotely better. I find the twinings lemon and ginger tea bags are great with a spoonful of honey when I have a cold.

Every time dd cries I explain to DS that she's just trying to talk and tell me what she needs, it's not naughty and it's not anything he's done, babies just cry and soon we'll be able to teach her to talk too and you can hep with that. Then I remind him of all the things he can teach her, how to smile, laugh, splash in the bath, walk, talk, play... I tell him how it's not much fun being a baby and its much better to be a big boy who already get to do so many fun things and eat yummy food. Now dd is 4m he is convinced he taught her to smile and laugh and he's so proud of that. And tbh he does make her laugh more than we do!

Give yourself major brownie points for just getting through each day haddock. You will get through this.

Oh god yes, it is awful the way that children don't accept sick notes!

Be kind to yourself Haddock. These dark days are not forever. They will be far outweighed by the moments yet to come, when your children hug each other, make each other laugh, become each others best friends. Those are the times they will remember, not these awful few months.

Paracetamol and lots of water for you and try to keep eating even if it's just icecream and soup!

Babies cry. Some more than others. Ds1 bf A LOT & never really cried until 3-4 months when he had a bout of colic. Ds2 was a crier & had untreated (mild) tongue tie & I'm still bfing him at 16 months. I just plodded on through the exhaustion & feelings of guilt. It does get easier as time goes on & you fall into a sense of routine. Sod the housework (do bare minimum), cook basic meals only, batch cook & freeze, go for a walk everyday, visit baby&toddler groups as much as possible, have cuddle time with ds1&2 while bfing- bf baby til booby drunk while cuddling ds2 on your otherwise, in bed. They might nod off together. Encourage them to hold hands while bfing/cuddling. That will strengthen the bond between brothers. I have two boys & this has all worked for me. It's very hard to begin with. The first six months of baby (&bfing) are lovely but monotonous&tiring. The next six are much more fun! Thinking of you op. Best of luck X
P.S. I'd second giving ds1 snacks & a 'special'cup of juice or milk.

P.s. ds1 is fine despite me feeling he was 'sidelined' in the early days. Remember lots of cuddles. Make sure you're resting enough & drinking & eat well. X

Oh sweetie. It's shit isn't it. I hope that your appointment today is helpful. Be completely honest with your HV/GP. It's really not uncommon to get PND and it can be treated.

I'm in North London and more than happy to meet up if you want a chat, coffee or a hug; seriously. PM me if I can help. I've been there.

This thread restores my faith in humanity a little.

drop same here. The support op here has been amazing and has made me feel so much better and not so alone.

Very touched by the amount of support and advice.

Glad to hear it haddock . I hope things improve for you. FWIW I think you sound like an excellent mum.

Im sorry, I have no advice im a first time mum to only one baby but I just wanted to say I've been thinking of you and I really hope everything is ok for you. You sound like such a caring mummy and your babies are lucky to have you xx

I remember howling to my friend and asking her why she hadn't told me it was going to be this hard having kids. I remember her saying something about it not being something you realise until you actually go through it. So it ends up being a shock when you do find out.

If it makes you feel better OP, I was a nanny for years and a bloody good one too but found having ds SO hard xxx

I was sobbing to my DP about not coping, exactly like you. He said - 'why do you think everyone else is finding it easy? Maybe they're not.' I honestly had assumed everyone else could do it & I was the only one. You aren't alone! It IS hard/impossible. You can't do everything. I found sleeping was the key. Sleep, sleep at weekends, express maybe & let DP do some of the night feeds. and (whisper) don't think yourself a failure if you decide to ff...

Those ones you see out and about? They are the ones with the freak babies who have read Gina, or similar, and can be counted on to behave.
The rest of us are at home main lining caffeine or sugar.
Stay strong - you've done day 1.

Hey haddock hope you are getting some sleep. See you at midnight?

In case I forget, make sure you tell your hearing visitor exactly how hard you are feeling, don't pretend like everything's fine. I did with ds and it did us no favours in the long term. I kept putting on such a brave face for the GP etc that it took me a long time to really acknowledge just how much I wasn't coping.

Yesterday was a nightmare day, ds2 napped for a total for 3 hours broken sleep from 7am-9pm. By 9pm he was hysterical beyond belief, tears, red nothing could calm him down. Eventually went out for a walk with him in the ergo and lots of rocking and got him to sleep for a couple hours.

Ds1 is either unwell or teething as he has not been himself, and cried for about an hour and a half solid, and screamed so much we had to leave the library. I ended u crying in the street....then it rained and I got soaked!

I really hope this was one of the worse days and today is a better day in comparison.

When dh came home I cried and to,d him I regretted having ds2 and feel awful now.HV today, will tell her everything how I'm feeling and not coping.

Haddock, please do speak about it to the HV, and also have your cough/sore throat, etc looked at, maybe you need ABs.

Having 2 children under 2 feels like a car crash every day. I remember being shell shocked for the first few weeks, and my firstborn was 2.3 at the time.

She also talked a lot about the baby screaming. I bf both, and felt more able to bond that way. I think bf is a great way of being close to them, and the skin-to-skin contact helps calm them down. But I don't think bf to the point of exhaustion will help you.

Try to figure out what will help you. Little things, big things. Even silly things, everything.
Your mother&sister are out of order telling you ds2 was a mistake and not helping you at all. Unfortunately I also had no help with my 3, my mother just wasn't interested, my sister lives 300 miles away.

You may feel ds2 was a mistake, but then you're not yourself at the moment. Don't start to feel guilty for thinking and saying it, I'm sure many many mums have thought the same. Because you're feeling almost pushed over the edge. Sleep deprivation is torture. Your only aim should be to get as much sleep as possible.
Double buggy and let them both sleep in there together while you crash on the sofa sounds a very good idea, as was mentioned upthread.
While ds1 is at nursery, put ds2 in the buggy, and as soon as he drops off to sleep, you sleep.

I have seen your list for the week, looks like a plan. Meeting other mums is important, imo. You don't have to find a lifelong friend (although I did find them one on a playground and one in an nct newborn group) but just meeting other mums with the same stuff going on is vital, so you don't feel a failure! It's normal!

Hope you have your appointment today.
Btw I'm up because my 4yo about-to-start-school-tomorrow dd2 woke up, I'll go back to sleep soon. My first 2 are 12 and 14, you see, I needed an 8 year gap but then had another one.

I had pnd with my 3rd (due to health complications and scares just after she was born) and probably didn't bond with her until she was a toddler. I look back at that time now and have stopped feeling guilty.

Please look after yourself, your health is most important right now. Get as much help as you can. If you cannot afford a cleaner, try to get a babysitter for ds2 on the days he's not at nursery, maybe in the afternoon, so you have a chance to sleep.

Have a and try to get some more sleep.