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Original poster

Amazon Boycott

118 replies

Rhubarb · 16/05/2006 13:43

For those who might have missed this on the parenting threads.

Amazon are stocking books that encourage child abuse and paedophilia and refuse to take these books off their shelves. One of the books is called 'No Greater Joy' by Michael Pearl and it advocates whipping babies and children, quote "Many people are using a section of ¼ inch plumber’s supply line as a spanking instrument. It will fit in your purse or hang around you neck. You can buy them for under $1.00 at Home Depot or any hardware store. They come cheaper by the dozen and can be widely distributed in every room and vehicle. Just the high profile of their accessibility keeps the kids in line." This is for babies as well as children! Their website \link{http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/index.php?id=59&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=247&tx_ttnews[backPID]=7\here} says it all.

The other two books promote paedophilia and they are called 'Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers' by David L Riegel and 'Pedophilia - The Radical Case' by Tom O'Carrol, both authors are members of the 'childlove' movement, a paedophilia sympathisers club.

I've emailed Amazon and got a standard computer generated reply in response blabbing on about censorship. Of course they would do, they don't want to lose money over this. Mumsnet have dropped Amazon as one of their sponsors and I've closed my account. I ask all of you to contact Amazon and do the same. I'm also contacting all the parenting sites I can think of, registering and posting all of the above on their forums, if you are member of another parenting site, please do the same.

Thanks everyone.

OP posts:
Tinker · 17/05/2006 18:33

I like Mr Men books.

Kelly1978 · 17/05/2006 18:36

so do a lot of mnetters apparently, their is a thing in reviews about them. the kids like them, I don't get it at all.

trinityrocks · 17/05/2006 18:50

so, what are we going to do about pro-anna sites
(there is so much in the world that needs to be sorted)

I sometimes feels that maybe just maybe we ty to do soooo much and it's not all possible, also boycotting amazon won't stop the authers of these despicable books in any way, so I don't see the reasoning.

DumbledoresGirl · 17/05/2006 19:07

Well, IMHO, they are a load of tripe. But it was only intended as a joke, so don't worry if you like them Tinker!

thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat · 17/05/2006 19:11

the "liitle miss" business gets up my nose.

Northerner · 17/05/2006 19:54

I'm closing my amazon account too after this. Thanks Rhubarb for bringing it to our attention.

Am ashamed at the number of people on here who see know wrong in Amazon stocking this book.

Northerner · 17/05/2006 19:57

And those people who think boycotting amazon will not acheive anything apall me. I am choosing to do it because it's what I beleive is right.

PinkKerPlink · 17/05/2006 20:05

i just cant get the specialised books i want anywhere else , so maybe i am completely in that sense
the only part of my life i most prob am selfish in tbh

SenoraPostrophe · 17/05/2006 20:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted

PinkKerPlink · 17/05/2006 20:09

oh i a sooooo ashamed SP about something
but i willnot tellWink

niceglasses · 17/05/2006 20:11

Much of what these books preach is mixed up with religious belief - the same kind of values that hold up creationism as a truth. I personally find that very very scary.This is true Bible belt US. Should we also stop Amazon stocking creationist theory books? Just where do you draw the line?

Kelly1978 · 17/05/2006 20:35

someone explain the mr men thing please It's bugging me now!

SenoraPostrophe · 17/05/2006 20:50

pkp: huh? (it was northerner who said she was ashamed at the number of people etc etc)

Tarynsmummy · 17/05/2006 21:46

Have decided not to boycott. I don't use Amazon that often but when I do its because they offer value for money and an efficient service. I can understand why some think its wrong for them to sell these types of books, but there are probably hundreds more out there that are worse. We can't go boycotting every business/orgainisation because we don't agree in what they are selling. By boycotting we would just be adding to the 'Nanny State' syndrome, we should be grateful that we have such a vast choice of books. Also, just because someone was to buy these types of books does not nececcerily mean they are going to follow their practices, what about people who are just simply interested in other peoples views or doing research perhaps. By forcing booksellers to stop selling these books would be unfare to all.

Blu · 17/05/2006 22:06

It isn't aout the selling of books about ideas we might not agree with. For me, it's about using my consumer choice (as a consumer I have choice about what and where I spend, just as any business has a choice about what it sells).

This isn't a book about 'ideas' - it's an instruction manual on how to beat babies into submission. If i was a bookseller I wouldn't choose to stock it. As a consumer i prefer not to add to the profits of people who also make profits from selling this instruction manual.

A simple consumer choice. People make them all the time, and in the huge great scale of things, they might not be the most effective or important thing we do. I fully support the reasons why people use re-usable nappies - but didn't do it myself. people who use diposable nappies refuse to have a car for environmental reasons, and vice versa. Plenty of people choose not to shop at Tesco, or not to buy 'monopolise coffee'.

Anyone who is interested in this man's ideas can read them for free on the 'net. Amazon don't need to make a profit from selling it in order that he have a voice for his ideas. Rhubarb has also written to some more directly involved agencies, about the practice of beating babies, and of course, that is what we all want.

Meanwhile, my money will go to suport small distributors of books which need the money because they aren't getting rich selling this stuff.

That's my consumer choice, not an act of censorship.

Blu · 17/05/2006 22:08

ahem - 'about making the practice of beating babies ILLEGAL'. Blush Sorry Rhubarb!

Tarynsmummy · 17/05/2006 22:42

Fair point Blu

franch · 17/05/2006 22:44

Very well said blu

ladyoracle · 17/05/2006 22:52

I'm all for boycotts, if you feel that what you're doing can make a difference, If it's on a grand enough scale maybe not even to have an effect on the company and its ethics, but at least to get noticed then it's worth doing. I'm just not sure that this is one of those cases, It's great to feel like you could be helping a cause, and the suppression of incitement to violence against very small children is a bloody good cause, however I can't help but feel that sitting at home buying stuff off play.com instead of amazon is radical or effective protest. Don't ask me what we should be doing, I don't know...marching has kind of gone out of fashion, letters to MP's? a co-ordinated campaign with the backing of the NSPCC?
I just think that there has to be something better we can do.

franch · 17/05/2006 23:04

You have a good point too ladyoracle. I'll be interested to know the NSPCC's stance.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 17/05/2006 23:56

Here's why we've chosen to remove our affiliation with Amazon: As a parenting website, run by and for Mums, we quite simply cannot stomach partnering with an organisation that stocks and promotes a book that advocates beating babies. Like many of you we had a visceral reaction to this particular issue and it's as simple as that really. How can we affiliate with a business that makes money out of promoting and legitimising a message like this?

The fact that our actions may not matter a jot to Amazon - the affiliate revenue we get from sales is fairly meaningful to us but undoubtedly meaningless to them - is neither here nor there in our opinion. Nor is the fact that there are no doubt "morally worse" books out there.

We strongly believe in freedom of speech at Mumsnet and completely accept that books like this one have every right to be published but Mumsnet doesn't have to partner with retailers who chose to stock those books. As Blu says, other booksellers choose not to. But having said that, in our view it's a bit too easy for Amazon - who can use the fact that we are all (quite rightly) wary of censorship - to entirely disassociate themselves from the notion of corporate responsibility. What this issue has made us realise is that we do think businesses - even big American ones - should draw a line somewhere.

Of course there are powerful arguments on both sides (freedom of speech vs moral responsibility etc), many of which have been rehearsed here and on other threads. In some ways we'd love to be convinced that we're being foolish and have missed the point (which of course is entirely possible Grin)- not many other retailers are as simple to partner with as Amazon and we could do with the revenue. And we have to admit that we've not read the entire work in question - sorry we just can't bring ourselves to buy it and read it right now. So please do continue to give us your thoughts on this.
Thanks MNHQ

controlfreaky2 · 18/05/2006 00:00

i completely agree and well done mn hq for saying so and for acting on views so quickly and effectively. am really impressed. [see below!]

morningpaper · 18/05/2006 08:51

Justine - is there another online retailer that you COULD partner with, that would NOT sell these books? Then mners could use that link to buy books. Or will all online retailers sell these books? (I would imagine the latter but you might be able to find a small booksellers?)

batters · 18/05/2006 09:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DominiConnor · 18/05/2006 09:23

Where do you draw the line ?
Looking at the ads on this site I see companies that have been convicted of quite an array of crimes.

Amazon do stock bad books, but "bad" is hard to define well.
Perhaps I'd put it another way round:
If I said an American multi national was deciding which books you'd be allwed to read, would you be happy about it ?