Stay at home mums on benefits

[Jenny2998]

I am 21,single, and am currently bringing up my 2 children ( 8months, and 3 years) on benefits.

I made the decision to be at home with my kids because i feel it is incredibly important during the first years of their lives.

i don't like being on benefit, but currently cannot find any way around it - i have been trying unsuccessfully to find work at home for the past 3 years. i am keen to become a childminder so that i can support my family, but in the flat we live in at the moment that is just not possble.

so, until the situation changes one way or another i will remain on benefits. The most important thing to me is my children, and i am all too aware that if i did choose to go out to work and miss out on their childhoods, that i would never get this time back.

so, am i to be condemned as a scrounger just because i want the best for my kids? what are your thoughts?

Tigermoth- you posted-"For instance, to break the cycle of generations on families on benefit, do you try and change the mother's outlook and aspirations, or do you work with the existing children and try to ensure they grow up equipped and motivated to get a job?"

IMO the trouble is that parental circumstances, outlook and aspirations are the main influences on children's motivation. So it's difficult to succeed with children in isolation even if you don't feel the parents are worthy of help in their own right. In order to help the child you have to help the family.
I very much agree with your post, Winnie.

I know a family who OWN their farm, have 2 nearly new vehicles, one fo which is paid by his mothers disability allowance and she now lives in England, has nearly 200 dairy cows, nearly new steading, renovating the house, chinese and indian every week, good machinery, and what does he get FULL WFTC every bloody week! We live on 140 acres of rented farm land, and have just taken over 2500 acres of mainly hill ground to try and establish a good secure future for our kids. We are lucky NOW, not to have the borrowing we had in the past, i.e. sleepless night, wondering where the next pound came from etc. But, the thing that gets right my nose is the fact that there are families out there who are just borderline and work very hard for the money who don't get a penny more because they might earn a pound more than qualifies them for any extra aid. The family I was talking about above received over £10,000 from the RABI (Royal Agricultural Benevolant Fund) and they were still receiving a milk cheque every month without fail, and I know fo others who really needed it and didn't apply as they said there people far worse off than them.
I agree with what Winnie has said, and am now off the abuse the washing machine and a B&H []

Would the jobs that are currently available realistically pay enough to keep a family? Every shop and restaurant that I pass seems to be hiring, but it's mainly part-time work.
The reason we have so many long-term unemployed in this country, is that we no longer have a large manufacturing base. Our growth industries are in the service sector, and the jobs that are created there tend to be part-time. Although I agree that it is wrong to expect never to work, there are very good reasons why some people in our society hold that view. They had the fight knocked out of them years ago. It seems to me that changing attitudes is he key, as others have said.

Winie, I think you're so right about collective responsbility and yes, of course single parents need help to get out of the benefit trap as I've said at length in an earlier posting, so I won't repeat it here. By making changes in their own lives they are leading their children by example.

But might it be practically easier for some parents on long term benefit to concentrate their efforts on their children? to help their children get qualifications and find work to break the cycle?

Could extra attention be given here? for instance, by making sure that parents take their primary-aged chldren to school regularly, and if there is a persistent history of unexplained non-attendence, holding the parents more accountable?
I don't mean this in a punative sense I hasten to add!! I am talking about extra support as well, to ensure parents on long term benefit get involved in their child's school life.

Scummymummy re 'In order to help the child you have to help the family' - yes, of course!

As you know from one of my earlier posts - one you replied to - you know I'm all in favour of ensuring single parents on benefit feel they have a choice in life and their efforts to return to work will be fully supported and rewarded by the government.

However, just say you were a single parent with three children, with no qualifications in an area of high unemployment. You have grown up on benefits yourself. There are few if any working adults in your extended family.

Having felt that you have few choices, you still want to ensure your children have a better future. Perhaps this has come with a change of attitude, or it's something you have always felt. Whatever.

You have two choices: you either get a job or qualifications yourself, or you devote your efforts into ensuring your child has every chance to succeed.

If you're lucky you can do both. And that is, of course, BY FAR the most preferable thing. But if push comes to shove, a qualified teenager without children and with a supportive parent IMO would find it easier to get work than an older mother of three starting from scratch, with no support from HER parents, trying to juggle work and childcare into the bargain. If the hurdle of getting work is just too much for you to scale, ensuring your children get a good start in life is, IMO, much more do-able.

Winnie, I would happily shop someone who is blatently abusing the system. I damned sure if I was doing it someone would shop me. I know of famlies (only through word of mouth though) that have alot more than we do, all the up to date television etc and dont work at all. I also know others who are struggling while working and claiming some benefit, at least they are trying.
I do think that single mums should have the choice to stay at home to lay foundations for their children, but some of those foundations will be you dont have to work. We need to become alot more family friendly in the work place and start supplying creches etc and I am sure alot of women would return to work, I know I would return to office work if there was a creche for ds, even part time work.

There seems to be a belief that people are well-off on benefits. A single parent age 16-17 gets 31.95 pw ( £42 in some circumstances), rising to 53.05 age 18 or over, and 32.95 for each child under 16, plus a family premium of 14.50 regardless of the size of the family.. There are additional premiums for disability etc, and help with accommodation (not 100%) and council tax. Thats c. £130 per week to feed and clothe an adult and 2 children, pay heating, lighting, transport and all other bills. What does that leave for extras, holidays, birthdays, Christmas? Jenny2998 and Lizzer, I am full of admiration for people in your situation. The point of a welfare state is that those of us paying taxes help those who aren't, for whatever reason. Disability, unemployment , ill-health could affect any of us. Where there is an inclusive welfare system there will inevitably be those who abuse the system, but that is no reason to condemn the vast majority of people who are in need through no fault of their own. I'm with those of you who have highlighted the need for education and trying to ensure equality of opportunity. My grandmother was widowed with 2 small children in the nineteenthirties, when there was no welfare state. She worked long hours to bring them up, and post-war was able to qualify as a teacher to offer them a better quality of life. This was only possible because of the post-war Labour parties opening up of access to education for people who would otherwise have been unable to afford it. Sadly our present government seems determined once more to restrict access to tertiary education. For many children in areas of long term unemployment further education is unimaginable. Alongside the need for teachers to inspire them (Yo, Scummymummy, Lizzer!) we need government policies to support them.

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If you can get a job that is viable and child care then work, if not then that is a problem which needs to be sorted. But how easy to the government make it?! It's the old "Postcode" syndrome again as with health care.

There were kids at Jack's nursery who didn't turn up some days when they should have been in when other parents were desperate for places both here and round the country. It made me so mad, not to mention it's giving kids the idea that "wagging" is ok.

I am sorry i haven't replied before (i don't have internet access at home as i can't afford it)but it's nice to see such a big discussion!

i am feeling very humbled by such a positive and supportive response, which to be honest, i wasn't expecting.

As i said in the beginning, all i am trying to do is the best for my children, which, at the end of the day i guess is what we are all doing.

I have ambitions! in the long term,I want to go to Uni and train as a nurse. i guess i've just done things a different way round to most people - kids first, career later.

I am fortunate in that i do have quite a lot of support, from my parents - although most of my extended family are of the beleif that i am the scum of the earth.

Life can be a struggle on benefits, but the children don't go without. I just have to live within my means, i don't smoke, or drink, i don't go out very often (i've been out for the evening twice in the 8months since my daughter was born!). we economise, and have to save for special occasions, but we get by and we're happy. i even manage to put money away, both children have savings.

and to answer your question Jasper, i love being a mum, i am the happiesat since having my children that i have ever been in my life!

I guess what i have learnt from this is maybe not to be so judgmental. people aren't always what they seem, and it's all to easy to categorize people and condemn them unfairly.

Jenny2998, you sound happy as you type which is good and dont take any notice of what people say, like you have said people shouldnt take things on face value. I hope all goes well with training to be a nurse, we can all be and do what we want if really have the determination and courage.

I do get abit annoyed with some people on benefit, the ones who work and claim really. I dont think I would shop anybody as I have previously said, thats always my first reaction as you just never know what goes on behind closed doors.

Jenny you sound much happier and more well adjusted than a lot of well off people I know, including my friend who is expecting her second baby who is extremely well off and does not go out to work, being married to a very rich man!She is always miserable!
Kindest wishes to you and your family.

Ok then you are 26 your oldest child is 3. So what did you do between 18 and 22? Even if you wanted to be a nurse and you got pregnant (obviously the training is longer)there would have been child care available at Uni. Not getting an opportunity is one thing but not taking it is quite another.

Oh, jbr!!!!! Do you really mean to come across quite so aggressive and judgemental? Do you not realise, and I am sure you do,(from things you have written about yourself) that life is not black and white. The best laid plans can go pear shaped and without doing anything oneself ones circumstances can change over night... it is not a crime, to walk out of school and not know what one is going to do with ones life! I know people in their fifties and sixties who are still deciding. Good for them... Life changes, circumstances change, we change (surely that is just part of getting older) and however much I'd like it to be life isn't a level playing field for everyone!!!

Jenny, good luck and best wishes, glad you were able to get back to us and let us know your response!

Do you mean Jenny, Jbr? Because she says in her first post that she is 21, not 26. In any case, I don't see what the big deal is about going to uni at 18. My son was 21 when he started, and he is doing a completely different course to that which he would have chosen at 18. He had had severe health problems all his childhood, which abated when he was about 18, and so he wanted to do all the things he'd been unable to do previously, before committing himself to four years studying.

There is also the 'small' matter of finance, which is a heavy burden, these days. My son has worked for three years, gained a great deal of experience and so far has been able to avoid building up any debts which would have to be paid off once he earns more than £10,000.

OTOH, my other son went to uni at 18, and that was right for him, because he knew what he wanted to study and was keen to continue his education.

It's horses for courses and quite honestly, I don't see that age has much, if anything, to do with when you go to uni.

Winnie, I applaud and echo your posting. I have just had the most bizarre year of my life, with so many things happening that I could never have anticipated. My motto from now on is: expect the unexpected!

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I have nothing but admiration for anyone who can cope whilst bringing up their children alone, I'm certain that I wouldn't be able to manage. My partner and I both work (both earn minimum wage -I'm part-time and technically his 28 hrs per week are full-time!) but we still have to also rely on WFTC and housing benefit. All to often there is an assumption that people who work and claim benefit are on the fiddle and certainly the (housing) benefit office assume that this is so and make you prove otherwise. (Don't really mind this - there is a lot of fraud which needs to be tackled, it's just a bit of a pain every time we claim.) Surviving on benefits (whether you also work or not) is no easy ride and I've no idea where people get the impression that it's in some way easier than working. If my partner could find work which would enable us to stop claiming he would certainly take it and for months he has been looking for work (he's a chef) yet has been unable to find many positions which weren't seasonal or part-time. He's not just looking for kitchen work but has not had any interviews for anything he's applied for. He would quite literally take anything that was offered to him if it was full-time (ie 40 hrs) so that we would not have to rely on benefits.

As for going back to uni (Jenny 2998 and Lizzer) I started uni again last month and can't say enough great things about it. My daughter goes to the on-campus pre-school centre (I only have to pay 20% of the childcare costs because of low income) and she loves it. It is hard work having to juggle evrything (and the travelling is a real pain) but I'd say that this will ultimately make your degree more rewarding. If you can survive on benefits you will have no trouble being a skint student!

I also echo Winnie's post
Jenny- it's good to hear from you. It sounds to me like you're doing really well and also have clear ideas about what to do with your life- something I always admire since I tend to blunder into things without thinking them through properly. I've always envied people with a game plan!
Jbr- I just don't think it's fair to hold people accountable for periods of their life in the "What were you doing then and why weren't you doing something else way?" (Unless they were committing serious crimes or something.) My own reflections would be most uncomfortable for some stages of my life. In fact I sometimes wonder if I'll ever reach a stage where I don't look back on the past few years and wonder what the hell I was doing at some points! Where do all the years go?! I know you've said elsewhere that your CV has big holes in too so I think you might be able to relate to this more than you think...

Jenny, lots of luck for the future. I think you asked a really good question. I think it led to a very thought-provoking discussion - hope you found it interesting, too!

Hope you can keep in touch, as and when you can get on the internet.

Yes by circumstances not choice. I did do my A Levels twice I admit but when I failed the first time aged 18 I went straight down to book myself some more in a different place.

Jenny, it was good to hear back from you after starting this discussion. Good luck with your career, it doesn't matter what order you do things in as long as you get where you want to be in the end.
Someone, lots of posts back asked if we knew of any people who claimed long-term benefits without a valid reason to do so & the answer is yes. My sister currently training to be a GP, was working as a locum in a GPs surgery for 6 months and she was really shocked by the number of people asking to be signed off long-term sick with no reason to do so. She was asked to sign forms saying that patients needed cleaners, meals on wheels, heating allowance etc, etc when she could find no medical reason whatsoever for them to have these things.
I think that there are people out there who are prepared to "milk" the system and take from those who are genuinely in need. I am not suggesting that these people are living in the lap of luxury for one moment but for some reason they have decided to opt out of working for a living.