Feeling a bit guilty - DS1 (5) gone to bed without ANY dinner......

[HRHQoQ]

but I had to follow through.

I'll try and keep this short - I've been writing some rather long posts recently .

For about 2 weeks DS1 (who was 5 in September) has been wetting himself, once a day, and all but one times at home (the other at school). I've checked with him that it's not sore when he wees, and everything looks ok 'down there'. So on Tuesday I decided enough was enough, said that if he wee-ed in his pants again before the weekend he couldn't play on the Playstation with DH. He only gets on for a total of 4hrs (2 each day) a week, and only at the weekend.

Yesterday went really well - all be it at the very last minute, he did actually go to the toilet.

Today, just as I asked him to sit down and have his dinner at 7pm I asked him if he needed to do a wee. He suddenly went very quiet, so I asked if he'd wet himself - he admitted he had (and when I looked I could see a MASSIVE wet patcho n the carpet) and I told him there's be no playstation at the weekend.

Cue major tantrum, got off his chair, pushed it in and declared he didn't want his dinner, amid screams and loud protests.

Sent him off to the naughty step (in the bathroom - it's downstairs) where he proceeded to scream and shout at me, like 5yr olds who've just started school tend to do . Warned him on several occasions to calm down and stop shouting or he'd get a smack, and he decided to ignore me, and got louder and there was even mORE back-chatting - so he got a smack (don't feel guilty about that ).

Told him if he wanted his dinner, that once he'd stopped crying he could come back to the table and eat. He was still adamant he didn't want it. At 7.10 I told him that if he hadn't come to eat his dinner by the time the big hand had reached the 7 (7.35) I'd throw it in the bin and he'd go to bed hungry. He can't tell the time, but even with roman numerals, or just 'lines' for the numbers he's excellent with knowing where the big hand/little hand is pointing to - and I showed him just to make absolutely certain.

DS2 and I sat and ate our dinner, and every so often I invited him to come and eat his, he was still determined not to come back - despite me warning him it would go into the bin. 7.35 came, and I took it to the kitchen - STILL he said he didn't want it. So I threw it in the bin.

Cue even more protests "It's not fair" "put it back" "I want to eat it" etc etc etc. Thankfully that tantrum only lasted a few minutes, as I calmly explained why I'd done it.

I do feel bad for him going to bed hungry, but I didn't want him to think I wasn't serious when I said it.....I've threatened before - but never carried through with it.

Now I know most of you will say "you should never punish with food" etc etc, but please at least reassure me I was right to carry through with it....

I waswondering if there was a problem last week - but when I over heard him laughing and giggling and tell DS2 (who can't talk well enough to tell me so he thought he'd get away with it) how funny it was, and showing him the wet patch on the carpet and "don't tell mum" accompanied by lots of giggles. I find it hard to believe anything's actually wrong

Especially as yesterday - when he got home from school I reminded him about what would happen if he wee-ed on the floor (the playstation) - and......it didn't happen - nothing at all not even a customary 'tricke' in the pants and there was nothing different about the routine yesterday - same as any other day after school.

actually that's a point - perhaps I should "threaten" to take him - we finally stopped getting EVERY single poo in the pants (thankfully only goes every couple of days) around Easter this year - as I'd rung up and made an appointment at the Dr.s - told him that we'd be going to see the Dr. about the pooing in the pants........and it stopped - it was 2 1/2 weeks away the earliest appointment I could get - so plenty of time for him to get it right.

No, I'm with you now (well, was always with you IYSWIM). But maybe if he thinks it is being taken so seriously you are dragging him off to the docs that might shock him out of it? Just a thought...

perhaps a more suitable "punishment" would be to help you clean up in whatever way necessary - whether that's helping with cleaning the floor, washing clothes/furniture etc. so he understands what it entails for you, but also gets a sense of responsibility. sounds to me like the "angry" punishments he's getting may just be fulfilling a need for attention...

QofQ - don't think that your treatment today was without good reason (except for the smacking - you big bully).

However, I would be very, very wary of making going to the docs a negative experience! You want a child to see a doctor as a positive (he will make me better) not a negative IMHO!

My DS had the same pooing and weeing pattern as your DS - I am convinced that he was unable to control it!

A little suggestion, if I may, from the positive parenting mindset. Rather than punishing him if he wees, you must reward him is he doesn't!!!!!

Subtle but significant difference. Yesterday at bedtime you would have said 'how wonderful sweetheart you've not weed today, you have earned 30 mins on the playstation at the weekend.' Today you would have said - at bedtime - not when it happened, 'oh dear, you weed yourself today so you haven't earned any extra time on the playstation. Nevermind, tomorrow I'm sure you will not wee and earn another 30 mins'!

Feel free to ignore - but it works you know - much better than smacking

I agree with laligo's first post and I'm not anti-smacking. IMO whether it's deliberate or not a child shouldn't be punished for wetting themselves, I'm not saying that a little gentle disapproval to a big boy isn't out of the question but not punishment.

I totally agree with taking him to the Dr, my DS1 is 6.5 and is like a puppy when it comes to weeing, can't seem to hold it for long, last year he had a few accidents at School (and at home) and his teacher suggesting taking him to the Dr. I was glad we did this as I think it impressed on DS1 the importance of going to the toilet when he needs (even if this is frequently) and that he is such a big boy now that he shouldn't be wetting himself, big boys who wet themselves might have something wrong with them. To back this up he also went to see the School nurse who talked to him about drinking enough, going to the toilet when he needs etc.

soap - oh no he doesn't see it as a negative experience - we go frequently (especially during winter) for his coughs which tend to end up as chest infections - I think back at Easter when I made the appointment he realised I was "serious" about him having to stop - and he did, literally from that day stop doing it! Infact the only proper poo we've had in the pants since then was when he had the runs.......and left a trail down the stairs and around the living/dining room !

laligo - He gets lots of rewards and treats for being good, it's not all just smacking (only do it once in a blue moon, and even then after several warnings......9/10 he stops what he's doing as he knows I mean it), taking priveledges away (he's only started playing on the playstation a few weeks back - part of the "wow what a big boy you are now racing cars with daddy"), and naughty step - for outrageous cheekyness and tantrums.

Soapbox - we tried every 'reward' system under the sun to stop him pooing in his pants - he was potty traing 3 weeks before his 3rd birthday - so we had 1 1/2yrs to try lots of methods - none worked.

Last half term when he behaviour suddenly deterioated (thankgoodness most of that's stopped ) we tried the pasta jar - with fantastic (and easily achievable) rewards - but he got bored after a couple of days - despite the fact it was nearly full!

We also can't really offer 'extra' time on the playstation - he goes on it when DS2 is asleep (works out quite nicely - I feel 2hrs maximum each weekend day is more than enough and DS2 sleeps for 2hrs - so he goes on it then).

MrsSpoon - I'm sorry I have to disagree with you there, when my son is laughing and joking and making a game out of weeing in his pants (and on the carpet), and finding it amusing (to say the very least) I believe it deserves a punishment.

It's not a 'irregular' things that happens a couple of times a day - it's a once a day affair, sometimes as soon as he gets back from school, sometimes just before bed, and at the weekends it can happen at any time of the day.

I, personally, don't feel a child should be allowed to think that deliberately weeing on the carpet is ok.

anyhow - off to sleep - shan't be on here until around 4ish tomorrow - as I'm going to work in the morning !

Sorry I know everyone has a different ideas about discipline but I think you have been a bit harsh, sorry. My dd had a phase of wetting herself, when she was in reception, having been very good at nursery. I think it is often partly to do with getting so absorbed in events that she forgot. I never made a fuss out of it and she soon grew out of it. IME the more attention you give a child, whether it is positive or negative, the more they will repeat, so getting cross when he wets himself could simply reinforce the behaviour?
Sorry don't mean to criticise, just sharing my experience/opinion...
Hope he grows out of it soon!

where did I say I got "cross" about him wetting himself?? I said that I'd told him (calmly and so that he completely understood) that if he continued deliberately (along with giggles and laughter...) wetting himself he wouldn't get the playstation.

He did it again, so I told him that he wouldn't get the playstation, at which point he threw a massive tantrum - which I did get cross about.

You were right to follow thorugh - the punishment wasn't for wetting himself, but for the tantrum that followed.

We're having a wee bit of similar problem with ds either not cleaning his bum properly or by holding it in and then having a smelly accident. We've tried to address it with rewards rather than punshment - if he's got celan pants at the end of the day he gets pices of pasta (initially it was 5 pieces, but he then had over a week of being clean, so it was down to two - but recently he's gone back to dirty pants every night - although not as bad as before). I think the reward system was working and suspect that the recent lapses might be more to d with the fact that there has been a fair bit of stress in the house (with me going thorugh a miscarriage - although all that ds knows is that "mummy isn't well").

FWIW - we went ds to be a few weeks ago without his supper as he was acting up and ignered the warnings. Dh and I were then up all night with food poisonoing - so ds had a lucky escape!