Naps and Sleep Routines - Help!

[mcnoodle]

My ds is just over 3 months (my god but he's cute!). He's my first and I really struggled for the first few weeks (still have days where I feel like I can't cope). He was diagnosed with reflux at 3 weeks after he choked on vomit and was rushed to A&E. The reflux is no longer a problem thanks to medication, or maybe he's just growing out of it, but as a result of the awful pain he was in those first weeks, he can only fall asleep when feeding (I am BFing). He sleeps brilliantly at night, but during the day only naps in car or pram or on the breast. Health visitor has advised sleep training - putting him in his cot and letting him cry. I tried it the other day when I knew he was exhausted in the afternoon and it broke my heart. I ended up picking him up and he fell straight to sleep.

Does anyone have any advise re a "better" sleep routine. How can I stop him going to sleep on the breast without going through the hell of 'training'?

Will not be the end of the world for me to carry on as we are, but don't want to screw things up for him as he gets older.

Personally, I think training a child to fall asleep alone at this age is far too early. I believe that if they want a cuddle they can have one.

Maybe if you just try and wake him a little if he falls asleep at the breast so that he is a little awake when you put him to bed?

He is too young for sleep training. Its only ever any good at 6 months. (Thats not to say its not good to start good habits from birth but controlled crying is too much).

Check out the thread in sleep "Nap training, its breaking my heart....". I had all this and decided to go for the path of least resistance in the end because we decided it was better that we were both happy. He only has 3 x 40 mins sleep in the day now at 5.5 mths but we are both happy now!

Leave things as they are if you are both happy!

If you are happy to carry on as you are then don't let the HV bully you into anything you aren't comfortable with.

However if you did want to move towards a "better" routine the Elizabeth Pantley 'No cry sleep solution' has plenty of ideas which are a lot gentler than letting ds CIO - essentially you just inch towards your goal at whatever rate you and your ds are happy with. She recommends keeping a log every 10 days - any sooner than that and there might not be enough progress to spot.

On the other hand if you do want to "train" then the Baby Whisperer's Pick Up Put Down method has a lot of advocates. It does involve hard work and crying but does not mean abondoning your ds whilst he is crying.

Oh, sweetheart, of course it's not the end of the world to carry on as you are! Silly HV. I have no routine with dd (my second). She sleeps as and when and I feed her to sleep or - more often -take her out in her pram. And she is the sunniest, cheeriest, merriest baby of seven months you ever saw. Honestly, she NEVER cries. If your baby sleeps well at night you are very fortunate indeed. Babies all over the world from time immemorial have survived and thrived without being put in cots for naps!

YOu won't screw things up, honest!

DS only slept afetr a BF, or in the car, or the buggy, until he was 13 months.

Then with a bit of gentle guidance we introduced the "lets go to bed on your cot stuff", it worked, and now he naps and sleeps like the best of them.

I would wait til he's a bit older to be honest and cherish the cuddles & sleepy feeds.

3 months is still so very little so who can blame him for wanting a cuddle from his mummy. With my DS (now just 6 months and my second LO) I used to cuddle him to sleep and then put him in his cot until he got used to sleeping in there during the day. Then I started putting him in just as his eyes were rolling, then a bit sooner etc. etc. If he woke and cried, I picked him up and started again I would never, never, never leave him to cry.

Now he goes down twice a day in the cot for his morning and lunchtime naps, wide awake and very, very rarely cries.

Only the nights to crack now

Sorry, also meant to add that it is very common for babies this young to only sleep in 45 minute bursts (something to do with brain maturity). Longer naps tend to start falling into place at about 4-5 months and this is definately true of my DS

Hi, I was struggling too with my daughter who was unpredictable with daytime naps and would fall asleep on the bottle but only for 20 mins at a time etc and then fall asleep for the nite at 6pm only to wake at 4am refusing to go back to sleep. I begged for help on Rollercoaster.ie when she was 3 months old and was advised to use Gina Ford's Contented Little Baby routine. My daughter has slept through the night since I started this routine and feeds, naps and plays beautifully. Everyone comments on how very very happy she is and, no-one believes me but she never cries. On the GF routine you are meeting your baby's needs before they know they have them so there is no need for them to cry. If she ever does have a cry I know there is something real wrong with her. The routine is such that the baby never falls asleep feeding or wakes up hungry, it's brilliant and I could not manage without it now!!! The book is called The New Contented Little Baby Book by Gina Ford. Give it a go, it's hard to get them established and you have to be determined but if you persevere it is SO worth it. Good luck! Her website is www.contentedbaby.com

Started this thread and then got bogged down in looking after a baby!

Thanks for all the advise. To be honest, I'm not a routined enough person to make a strict routine work. So I will just carry on as I am! I like the idea of slowly putting him 'down' when his eyes are rolling - will maybe try that in a couple of weeks if I feel he is ready.

Tonight he was all windy, but exhausted having hardly slept all day. DH came home and just cuddled him to sleep. Everyone happy!

I only get agitated about this when I can tell sleep is what he wants (during day) but I just can't get him there. He is a windy little thing and that seems to stop him sleeping sometimes. But I guess as he gets older this will get easier.

Never thought I would become so obsessed with burps, farts, sleep and boobs!

I'm not a routine kind of person either, been disorganised and forgetful my entire life! I have used GF's routine as a guide as I think so many others do too, it just means getting up at 6:50 every morning without fail to wake the baby and I found the rest just falls into place. I feed at 7am, 11am, 2pm, 6pm and 10:30pm (wake the baby 4 this feed), she naps at 9am, 12pm, 3pm and goes down 4 the night at 7pm (not strictly what GF recommends but it suits us) But if she's hungry b4 it's time I feed her early and if she's tired I put her down but I always put her down awake, she gets herself to sleep no problem which she didn't before I started this. It works brilliantly for me, I think it would solve your problems but never mind if you think it's not for you!

I suppose the thing I don't get with a routine, is what you do if you are out and about. If I don't go out most days I start to feel a bit insane, so ds tends to sleep when we're on the move (car/pram). I appreciate the advice laurasmum, just don't think I could get through putting him down awake as I know he would cry and I can't bear it when he does. How did you get through this?

I do worry that he's not getting enough sleep. Often looks pale, with dark circles under his eyes. That makes me almost as anxious as hearing him cry tbh.

I agree that 3 months is definitley too young for sleep training. Your HV needs to do some contemporary reading. Tell her to read Why Love Matters by Sue Gerhardt. I can't believe a HV would suggest such a thing for such a young baby.

You know what's best for your little one Mcnoodle, trust your instincts. It's extreamely stressful for everyone to leave a baby to cry most of all you AND baby. I went the path of least resistance too with my ds (now 12 months) and he had 3 half hour naps a day on my knee on a b/feeding cushion (get one from ebay - they're indispensible!) I'd just read or doze myself..or just gaze at him. He's now a very happy and independent 12 month old for having all the secuirty he needed in his first year. He was also teething alot in his first year and they really do need comforting then poor things.

It is exhausting but I really don't think there is any way around this for the first year (or maybe two) of having a baby. If you just accept it, it gets easier as you're not constanly hoping things will change - and things will change but not in the way you'll expect to!

Also, do you have a bouncy chair? That was a good transition for ds from my lap to the chair..there were a few tears but your still with them so they know they haven't been abandoned. (DS still uses his 6 months past the recommended time!)

Jesus Mcnoodle, he's a tiny baby who's been very sick!! Babies are supposed to suck themselves to sleep - it's what nature intended. They're supposed to want to be close to mum. Your HV should be shot - I would seriously complain about her.

Don't think about sleep training until your DS is at least a year. Even then, make sure he's not teething as that can play hell with their sleep - purple/red lumpy gums are a sure sign.

I agree with other posters - between now and about 10 months (when they start crawling), short, frequent naps of 45 mins are very common.

Babies' brains are wired completely differently from adults'. What is becoming clear is that we cannot treat them as mini-adults when it comes to sleep. (eg they don't know when you go to see them during CC that you are reassuring them. All they know is that mum isn't there)

He's only tiny once. The sleeplessness is a short phase - enjoy the cuddles while they last!

sorry - this topic is a bit parp-tastic for me

That is so true highlander. I very foolishly and misguidedly did "controlled crying" with my DS1 when he was a baby. I've felt guilty about it ever since.

Jesus McNoodle? I feel honoured!

oops, that's what I get for typing as I think!

Isn't he a scottish detective?

Alla Frost?

Hi, not much help here as my 7 month old DS still falls asleep at the breast. Too be honest he's starting to wean himself from it and I can now settle him without the breast although it takes longer. Tried for one week of not BF him at all when he needed a nap but we were both knackered and I personally didn't think it was worth it.

distant cousin of Hamish MacBeth......

Hi McNoodle. I have 3 1/2 month old and if I've read the posts properly I had a similar problem. If we were at home my ds would only sleep during the day if I cuddled him the whole time despite being really happy in his cot at night..I bottlefeed so the cuddling was his equivalent of being breastfed interms of sleep association. To be honest I loved all the cuddling but it made it impossible to get anything done when I was at home. Several people mentioned sleep training and leaving him to cry but like you I just couldn't do it.

What I did was, working to his general schedule, started to cuddle him asleep at exactly the same time, for the same length of time every day (I had to stay in more than normal for a few days to achieve this). Then once he was getting drowsy at the same time every day I started lying him in his cot or moses basket, first asleep, then drowsy but stayed with him whole time and patted his back when he woke and settled him as quietly as I could. If he wouldn't settle then I just picked him up and cuddled him until he'd had the same amount of sleep as normal. Over a few days he stayed asleep for longer and longer in his cot and settled himself back to sleep more easily each time. I never left him crying. Then once he'd got to the point where he'd sleep in his cot I started going out and about as much as usual but making sure that he always had an opportunity to sleep at what were now the normal times eg I'd have a lovely long lunch out while he slept in the pram at the same time he'd been sleeping in the cot or for his shorter morning nap I'd go for a walk to the local shops etc. Now he'll sleep equally easily anywhere and so I can be lots more flexible with the timing. The only point of the timing was to try and make sure he was so sleepy out of expectation of a sleep that he sleep anywhere and gradually overcame his need to always nap on me.

However I couldn't give up the cuddles so he always has his last 30 minute nap of the day on me whether he wants to now or not!!!

Sorry really really long post but thought it might help if you do want to give yourself a bit of freedom. If not agree with everyone else, ignore the HV and do what works for you!

Just realised I forgot to say that the friend who suggested this method did breastfeed and obviously this is a harder association than just cuddling as the baby is cuddling the source of the milk. She gave her started by wrapping her baby in a blanket so he was warm while she cuddled him, and when this wasn't enough she gave him a dummy (he didn't become dependant on it) just to get to the point where she created a habit where his need to sleep was bigger than his need to breastfeed. Hope that makes sense. Worked for her anyway but they're all so different aren't they ?!

Gonna make a note of that for the next one SM.

Thanks for your support. You have all pretty much confirmed what my instincts were telling me. Ignore the health visitor! She's rubbish anyway. Saw me at the doctors the other day after I got in a flap about a morning of horrible crying and when I told her what was going on she said 'oh dear' and buggered off. Really supportive.

Whilst you're here - I have another worry! DS takes AGES to feed. Usually anywhere between 45 mins and an hour. Is this normal!? I'm pretty sure he's latched on well, just don't think my milk flows that quickly. I'm sure it's contributing to his windyness - which also seems to stop him sleeping/staying asleep.