Hib Booster

[Mocha]

Today I received a letter from our doctors surgery advising that my 9 1/2 month old daughter is due to have the new Hib booster. This has been introduced for all babies who were 6 months or older on 1st April this year due to the increase in cases of Hib meningitis.

I just wondered what everyone thinks of this.

That explains a letter that a friend of mine got recently. She asked me about it, but I had heard nothing. She got one for her twins, who are only just 1. Interesting.

I am also in this situation with my 10 mth DD. SPoke to my Healh Visitor who explained that the HIB part of the immunisations that are given at 2, 3 and 4 months was not effective so a top-up booster is required. They are calling all children under 4 for this extra jab. There are leaflets available via Doctors and Health Visitors with more information - I am currently awaiting one of these before I will consent to jab. Hope this helps.

Message withdrawn

I have already made appointment for DD for next Thursday.

When I was about 2.5 years old I suffered from meningitis. The left side of my brain closed down completely and left mw paralysed down my right side. I was on phenobarbitone until I was 14 and needed speech and physio- therapy.

I am therefore not going to risk DD's health

I don't understand the logic that if a vaccine isn't working, they give more of it.

Ok I'm now really confused as to the logic of this. I saw the previous thread about the suspected ineffectiveness of the vaccine but have been otherwise unable to find any info on the Internet.

If they are recalling all those under 4 at beginning April, why not all the kids who had the injections pre April 1999 ? Did the formula change then or are they assuming that they will have had another dose as part of the Pre-school Booster. My ds, born 1998, when HIB was quite a recently introduced immunisation, had a booster last summer but the DTP did not include HIB. We have moved abroad in the intervening years and fear we may slip through the net unless I otherwise find out for myself.

any clarification welcomed, TIA

There's some more on this in the health section- think I gave a link can't remember.

Hib is cyclical so I suspect that when it was introduced it happened to coincide with a natural drop in cases- now it's on the rise again they have discovered its not as effective as they thought. it never changed the number of cases of actual meningitis anyway- children just got more men B.

Giving a booster makes little sense although i suppose it will provide protection to a few more kiddies,

The only think I can think of about the age cut-off is that Hib usually only affects children under 5- as by 5 most are naturally immune- whether that will be true by the time the vaccinated generation grows up I have no idea (currently children will still come into contact with Hib from adult carriers). I suppose a vaccinated child could have protection for a few years then come into contact again when older and be susceptible.

But then nothing in the enitre vaccination strategy makes any sense to me.

Look under health there is a thread on there about this.

The place with the info is:

www.immunisation.nhs.uk/hib (sorry I don't know how to insert it as a hyperlink)

It does explain why they're giving boosters, why only to children up to 4 years old etc. (quicker than waiting for a leaflet from your GP).

Thanks for those links - am at least partially reassured as to their logic and think that Jimjams is right that it is due to most cases occurring in Under 5s.

It will be interesting to see whether the same strategy is applied in Europe and, as we travel home a couple of times a year, if it is deemed worthwhile to give dd a booster anyway since the UK is classified as a higher risk area for Meningitis than some other parts of Europe. (Meningitis C, for example, is not a standard vaccine here while HIB is, but dd had the Men.C vaccine at our request as a precaution). One for our paediatrician at our next visit I think !

Thanks again,

Spoke to "jab" nurse at my gp's and she said that the reason that they are giving an extra dose is that the latest research indicates that 4 shots gives better immunity than 3 and with the higher rates of meningitis lately the nhs decided that it would be a good idea to give everyone the 4th shot. I am going to do a bit more research to make sure it makes sense.

If we do need to have a booster for Hib, Does this single jab contain thiomersal?

yes furball I think it does. AFAIK the only hib jab whch doesn't is the combined infanrix-hib (which is dtp-hib). You could check though as this may have changed - I last researched this about a year ago.

Thank you Jimjams, you really are a 'fountain of knowledge' on these sorts of subjects.

Can I also pick your brains. (I know your youngest has not had any vaccines)

Ds is 22 months, would you in my shoes.

a. Take up their kind offer of a booster

b. Go and get it privately, where as far as I know they use thiomersal free

or c. Not bother.

I am not going to 'hold' you to anything, I'm just interested into which way would you go. (Although knowing you, you probably wouldn't bother)

Another quickie Jimjams. A friend of mines baby had their first jabs a few weeks ago and I said I would find out for the next lot, which one she had to ask for if it didn't contain the thiomersal. I know you answered that question not long ago, I've done a search and just can't find it.

hi furball

She needs to ask for infanrix-hib- it's the combined one- and I assume they've added men c now as well. The only downside to it is that it uses acellular whooping cough (rather than whole cell) which is supposedly less reliable than whole cell. BUT the whooping cough virus has mutated anyway so neither really work now anyway!

I probably wouldn't bother with the hib. Mainly becuase I don't think it works very well- and what's the point of exposing children to the risks of vaccination if it might not even do what it's meant to. If my child wasn't under 2 and in day care (as mine isn't) I certainly wouldn't bother as that is the biggest risk group. If they were in full time day care and under 2 I suppose I would consider it further, but I would want to know more about side effects, whether it contains thimerosil etc etc. There was aslo a suggestion that the vaccination could trigger children who were harbouring the bacteria at the time into actually developing hib- so I would want to know more about that.

There must be thimerosil free hib available as they must use that in places like Australia- I just don't know the brand name. You could ask your surgery though. They're usually quite helpful- and if it's available they should be happy to order it in for you (it's just a case of asking usually). I used to have a list of vaccines containing thimerosil but my study is very unorganised at the moment. I will keep an eye open for it (I am filing at the moment!).

Thanks Jimjams your a star

woops- whooping cough is caused by a bacteria. It's mutated anyway. Being pedantic with myself but I hate seeing bacteria and viruses mixed up- makes me cringe.

My ds has had his Hib booster. His dad is a doctor and as he sees the unpleasant side of things when children have not been immunised, there was no way ds was not having the jab. There has been an increase of measles and whooping cough in our area as a result of children not being vaccinated....
Its an emotive issue but the Dept of Health would not be spending the money on the boosters if they didn't think it was necessary.

Lucie I'm not getting into an argument here. I see the effects of autism every day, as I live with it 24 hours a day. I also have a PhD in Biology, have read all the original research on vaccinations, and made the decision for ds2 based on our family history and what I saw happen to ds1.

Everyone is perfectly entitled to make their own mind up - I answered furball as she asked me directly what I would do. I don't choose not to vaccinate becuase I think the diseases are benign. I understand the risks ds2 in particular is exposed to, but I will not give my normal little boy a push towards autism when the chances are he already carries a genetic pre-disposition (and vaccinations in general increase the risk of developing autoimmune conditions in those who are suscpetible).

My family, my choice, everyone else can make up their own mind and do what they feel is best for their family.

I would advise anyone being called for a hib booster about the possiblity of a thimerosil free jab. They may all be thimerosil free by now so it may not be an issue, but I suspect it would be worth checking.

Oh and Lucuie the increase in whooping cough is probably becuase the bacteria has mutated and the vaccine no longer protects against it- (and it has mutated due to vaccination) This was reported in the New Scientist last year- not sure of date but it was around end May/June

The good news though is that this "new" whooping cough appears to be less virulent than the old whooping cough.

JimJams
As you say, everyone is entitled to their own views. My sister is autistic so am close to that issue too. I just think it starts to get dangerous when there are immunisations being rejected by significant numbers of parents. I also have a cousin who was died from measles so its a subject that is close to my heart.
Better leave it there!!!!

Ok fair enough- but I wasn't telling people not to vaccinate, and I wouldn't trust the department of health to understand the issues anyway (they don't seem to read the New Scientist for example- re the whooping cough report). And they certainly mislead (or not understand) certain papers etc.

Was your sister born autistic? Or did something happen? Sorry I'm being nosey- but I'm interested in how things have changed. For example I've read a lot of stuff recently which suggests that nowadays most autism isn't accompanied by learning difficulties wheras in the past it commonly was. Of course this is confused by Aspergers (which probably is better diagnosed now). My autistic ds certainly doesn't have any learning difficulties (and he definitely isn't Aspergers), so I wonder whether these reports are right and whether there is a new type of autism around. ANd if so whether this new type is "allergy induced autism"? His immune system is definitely heavily involved in his problems so from his point of view it would make sense.

She was born autistic - no learning difficulties, in fact she was offered an Oxbridge place, although she didn't go as she and my parents felt it wasn't the right place for her. As a small child, she was prone to uncontrollable violent outbursts. She has grown out of these over time.

Does she still have problems? Sorry I'm being nosey again but I'm always interested in effective early interventions.

I don't think ds1 was born autistic- all early social milestones were on time, and he didn;t stiffen or anything when picked up. Watching video of him playing bee-bo at 10 months I just don't think he was autistic then- his eye contact was fantastic etc etc and he was speaking. His final "hit" (at 11 months) was eczema herpeticum and shed loads of antibiotics. After that he became hypersensitive to touch (I thought at the time it was eczema but now I know it was a sensory problem). Lost language and started eating bread bread bread.

Anyway with the way he is now I'm not sure he will ever manage an independent life- let alone University- although I think he is quite possibly very intelligent (in a useless pure academic type sense).

Did your sister always have speech, or did your parents have therpay, or follow a home based program or something.

Sorry I am being nosy, but I'm sure that academically/cognitively ds1 has the potential to do very well, but he has such dire language, speech and communication difficulties I almost can't imagine him ever getting there. I would love to hear things that helped your sister.

She went to a very good school where there was a special needs teacher who devoted a lot of her time to her. She didn't have any other sorts of therapy/treatment. She just seemed to 'grow out of it'.

Was the SEN teacher autism trained? I would love to have a teacher like that for ds1! Did she ever have an official diagnosis giving her extra help or was the school just very switched on. Sorry again loads of questions- but we're in the process of statementing ds1 so I'm trying to gather ideas of what should go in there. Did the LEA fund her with a one to one? Or was it just extra help provided by the school?

And finally another slightly odd question- I've read reports of people recovering from autism- such as Georgie?? Stahl??? Not sure of her name- but basically she had auditory integration training and it worked like a miracle for her. Her mother has written a couple of books. She was very hypersenstive to sound and this caused her to withdraw so when her hearing ws retrained she was fine. And as far as I can tell she seem to be perfectly "normal" now. However all the literature starts by saying "autism is a lifelong disability" -which is incredibly depressing for the parent of a newly diagnosed child. So were the doctors really amazed by your sister, or did they not even notice Or did they change her diagnosis? I'd love to get some idea of how many diagnosed children go on to live normal lives, and how many of those lose all difficulties caused by their autism. The official stats make depressing reading and I wonder what they are based on.

I just love to hear stories like this as it gives us all hope. I know of adults who do very well and live very successfully with their autism, and a few cases of recovery- (another one that springs to mind is the barry? Kaufman who's parents developed an early intervention system called "floortime".) But most of the official literature is still very negative, and talks of independent living as being unlikely.