TV License. Who pays it?

[Tulipsroses]

Judging by the variety and quality of the streaming services I always ask my self where are the people that actually pay for TV license? I have never paid non of my friends pay. It is obvious that BBC have lost this game and is sticking to the licence fees as a lifebuoy.

I do agree that to many of the younger generations, who have grown up with online TV, streaming, catch-up and the like, broadcast TV will seem like a total anachronism.

Those of us who are middle-aged and older will remember the days when you either watched a programme at the exact time it was on TV or otherwise you missed it - forever, if it was never repeated. The arrival of the VCR changed things somewhat, but you still had to know/remember in advance to set it to record whatever programmes you wanted. Even the BBC themselves had a load of their own content that they lost or had to wipe owing to the expense of tapes, and so they were in the same boat as many of the public.

I find it strange (although a good thing) to think that even the very elderly people of the future will all 'do' online as a matter of course. Most people over 80 now are probably not regularly online (if at all), but when those who have had the internet all of their lives eventually reach that age, it will be as familiar and mundane to them all as using a light switch.

@Pemba I have pretty much all of the streaming services and the TV licence and the content of some isn't very good, Netflix and Disney are both lacking for the price. Apple TV is better quality than both so I do pay for a year of that, I think I have exhausted all the free offers, Paramount is a bit rubbish but I have it free with Sky cinema so that's there anyway Prime is good value but only because of the free delivery, Most of them you have to pay more to get rid of adverts, I see that Prime is going to pay extra for no ads sometime soon so more expense to make it watchable. Sky is expensive but very convenient to have. If I could only have one of these though, I would choose the TV licence for best value

The stuff offered by the TV Licence is much better value overall. Labour though are much more likely to be in favour of the licence so I guess most not in favour are Tory voters. For context I am not young.

I believe we should all de-fund the BBC

I don't.
Watched a couple of episodes of Shetland last night. I happily pay my TV licence for programmes like this.

I still record programmes I want to watch rather than use catch up as our Internet buffers from time to time. ITVX has interminable adverts you can't fast forward through as well.

I don't buy the arguments about propaganda and political bias either. I don't watch those types of programmes and don't need a tin hat.

I am not young either. And for context I am someone who would never vote Tory (shudder) but I can see the way that the wind is blowing with the TV licence, due to the majority of young people consuming tv in a different way, mostly streaming. I do pay the licence myself but DD and her friends mostly don't (and they're within the rules).

Perhaps Labour when they hopefully get in can think of a way to stop the licence fee being such a burden on poorer people. I really dislike the way that Capita (the TV licence enforcement agency) assumes everyone needs a licence and tries to bully and trick people into paying. I have read that a majority of those prosecuted are lower income women, often at home with children, because they are more likely to be at home to answer the door to a TV licence 'inspector' and may not know their rights. They are soft targets and yes may end up in prison if they don't pay the fine. Hardly progressive. They find it hard to pay because of the cost of living crisis.

Yes I agree that it is good to have an independent national broadcaster, but the whole funding model needs to be rethought. Funding through general taxation would be fairer.

The BBC has produced some great stuff, there is a fair amount of filler dross as well though. The people on here (you get them on every similar thread), saying 'Gosh the BBC is such great value, I would happily pay it just for Radio 4' etc are just virtue signalling, look how middle class and cultured I am! It's quite funny really. They want to enforce their taste on everyone else, not considering what a burden the licence fee is to many people who hardly consume BBC content. Anyway don't they know that you don't need a licence to listen to the radio, not for several decades?

Most people over 80 now are probably not regularly online (if at all),

well my parents are over 80yo and both are online on a regular basis, do a lot if their shopping this way, stay in contact with family members, watch/read (from articles in ‘newspapers’ to videos etc…). They have packages similar to Sky etc… both have used computers when they were working.

My MIL who hadn’t touched a computer until she was about 65yo, is shopping online too. She doesn’t have Sky (or equivalent) only because of the cost.

I find that a really strange comment. Internet is part of their lives too and has been for many years.

...and conversely, my mum, who is 80, has never had email or done an online shop and doesn't have any streaming services.

Not sure who is in the majority, in that group: anecdote is not data.

I never said that no people over 80 were online. I know that plenty are. Indeed, the people who developed and brought us the internet right from the early years are now elderly or have passed on.

Are you really telling me that you see no difference in general in the people you know in their 80s from those in their 20s regarding their frequency and confidence in using the internet? You must know very different older people from me. It's not a criticism at all; just my observation.

My mum and dad are both early 80s. I remember Apple IIe when I was a kid in the 70s. They have computers at work. I started university in the early 90s. We typed all homework in Microsoft office already then. And all offices I have worked in since graduation in the 90s are all emails and computers. This is 30 years ago! I agree we don't have smart phones back then, but computers and internets have been around for a long time. Those 80 year olds who work in offices will have used computers and emails and internets for a long time.

FWIW, my 80yo dad watches catch up TV and gets all his disinformation from whatsapp.

Fair enough, then - Age UK's campaigns and programmes on increasing digital inclusion for older folk must just be an unnecessary vanity project.

That must be why it's mainly people under 25 who are devastated and see it as a loss of their independence every time another bank branch closes...

@FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper My dad and my 12yo are probably similar in that they both are glued to the their phones. Dad is with WhatsApp and 12yo with Youtube. They are 'users' of software, nothing more.

Also remember that many of these now-elderly people will not have had jobs that required the use of a computer.

Even amongst those who did, I remember the time when people would describe their occupation as 'computer operator' - which sounds so quaint and anachronistic now.

@ReadyForPumpkins

Again, I never said that NO elderly people use the internet. Plenty of older folk are reasonably confident in using it when they need to and still plenty more are extremely absorbed in it and will indeed use it as much and as freely as a teenager.

And I said people over 80, but not all people over 80 are 81; some people are 90, some are 100, some are over 100 - maybe all the 100yos that you know are incessant internet users, but it's by no means universal.

But that doesn't mean that ALL elderly people have developed the skills and taken the trouble to learn something that didn't exist for the everyday person for the first several decades of their lives.

It's the old MN adage: just because you don't personally know anybody who experiences something, doesn't mean that nobody experiences it.

15 years ago, mobile phones were already the norm. Computers at work were the norm. I don’t think many people would have no contact with computers if they were working 15 years ago. Which is about when the 80yo of today stopped working!!
And there was no ‘computer operator’ then.

I mean, 15 years ago is when we stopped having a Tv because you could watch the BBC on iplayer (and you didn’t need the licence then if it was on catch up).
15 years ago, I had my first smartphone (I was very late to the party).

It wasn’t the 1990.

Perhaps Labour when they hopefully get in can think of a way to stop the licence fee being such a burden on poorer people. I really dislike the way that Capita (the TV licence enforcement agency) assumes everyone needs a licence and tries to bully and trick people into paying. I have read that a majority of those prosecuted are lower income women, often at home with children, because they are more likely to be at home to answer the door to a TV licence 'inspector' and may not know their rights. They are soft targets and yes may end up in prison if they don't pay the fine. Hardly progressive. They find it hard to pay because of the cost of living crisis.

And this is why I pay. I have had enough dealings with debt collection and bailiffs over the years as punishment for not earning enough money.
They have also hounded me and threatened court and prison over two separate issues that were straightforward and I actually had a licence both times.
Once was they were trying to get me to pay for an address that didn't exist - think flat a and flat b number 10, I live at flat a, neighbours live at flat b, the whole thing together is number 10. But despite having a licence for flat a, the guy at the door insisted I also needed one for number 10, and so did the people in the office when I tried to talk to someone about it. Number 10 is split into two properties but they insisted that it was 3 properties and that although I had a licence for flat a, I needed another one for number 10. I had to get my landlord involved and send maps to prove that it wasn't - despite the fact I actually had a licence and so did neighbours and there was an actual person there, in the flesh who could see with his own eyes what I was explaining. All they would keep saying is "If you don't sign up for a licence for number 10 we'll take you to court, you'll get fined and you could go to prison". Not interested in the actual facts.
The other was DD moving home after a year of university for her practical year. They hounded me about the license when I cancelled hers, the address was clearly halls and obviously moving home she was covered by mine, but they just threatened court, fines and prison as I'd stopped paying.
I just don't have the time to deal with the fall out if I were to stop paying, I got enough hassle when I was paying and so I know it'll likely be worse if i don't have a license all together. We do watch BBC at times, so I think it's fair enough to pay when you use, but I do think I was a 'soft' target because I'm a woman on my own, on a social housing estate and low income and therefore a prime target for scaring and threatening.

The first iPad was released in 2010. I remember buying my now 12 yo a Tesco tablet. IPhone was already popular before that.

Mobile phones were very common place in the 90s but it's not smart phone. We have desktop computers and dialups. I remember FTTC in the early 2000s.

But definitely those who are still in the workplace in the early 2000s will have used a computer.

There are still many 30 and 40yo who aren't confident with computers. I saw a FB post in the weekend from someone who pays BT over £50 for complete internet at home including WiFi and asked if any providers can do it cheaper. This shows 0 understanding on how computer networking works. We get more cautious with age. I can see those in middle age ending up similar to those in their 80s in time, with regards to computer literacy.

My dad (early 80s) used a computer at work for the last 10 years or so of his career, but only where he had to. He did the occasional email after retiring (at 60, not 65, as it happens) but never got into using the internet for shopping or looking things up much.

Essentially, he COULD use a computer, if he had to, but he didn't like it, so he didn't!

And my parents never had a smart phone, only a 'dumb phone' to take on walks in case of accident. Their MNO used to regularly threaten to take their number away as they hadn't topped up for 6 months on the PAYG or whatever, cos they never used it!

But you are tired of life. Madam.

Sadly I'm too techno-baffled and not proficient and also paranoid to do anything that anyone can say not only is this the ISP of my home / device but this is the specific home that the cable enters with no deviation from source.

When I found out the rules had changed about what I can watch online, ie the odd livestream prog then I was a bit gutted. Also it was easy avoiding consuming BBC products as I literally don't have a TV aerial to my TV, it's just streaming and my BBC account is / was blocked (by them I assume) since I stopped paying for a licence about five years ago. But to have to remember to completely avoid accidentally watching something live on any of several other channels or I'm breaking the law, that's crazy and I would be too anxious.

I don't want to pay the Licence Fee for my own personal reasons and I strongly object to it but I'm not going to break the law.

As for where I live, let's just say it's a highly gentrified and techno controlled area where facial recognition and smart measuring everything was built into the buildings. Our internet is effectively a monopoly situation. I'm pretty sure all these companies could make a lot of money selling the household usage data and the internet use algorithms and searches as it's an area targeted at the young and wealthy. I don't believe anything I do is private in the conditions. They potentially would even know everything about me by looking at my household data, including minute info such as what time I flush the loo (waste water smart meter monitor sends a reading every one second apparently).

I don't own a TV, can't afford one, I don't watch or record live TV, and don't use I player. So I obviously don't have a license, I can't afford it anyway. I'm on my daughter's Netflix. I actually think the BBC are up themselves and take serious liberties with their threatening letters and demands to contact them. I don't have a car , I'm not bombarded with letters asking why I don't have car tax or insurance! I'm under no obligation to contact TV licencing and of a CRAPita goon shows up my door will be slammed in his face. I think there should be civil disobedience and everyone should refuse to pay. They can't haul us all to court lol!?
.

How are you using your daughter’s Netflix? You live with your daughter?

I bought DD a TV from the local hospice shop. It is in perfect working order and cost £35.

She watches streamed stuff mostly, but it is much nicer for her to relax back in her comfy chair and watch a full size TV screen than to hunch over a laptop or tablet.

You don't need a licence to listen to the BBC radio stations, or BBC sounds.

I'm on her account, and i take my device to hers a couple times a month and log in there, never had any problems