NOT Church!

[Snugs]

Following on from the Church thread and our conversations there?

Ok ? I am a witch. I am out of the (broom) closet. I thought long and hard before posting on the church thread, but did feel the need to correct some misconceptions about my religion (rose to that bait on a previous religious thread as well).

Even with the anonymity of our nicknames, I was wary of reactions. I have posted on previous threads that I am a pagan, but never that I was a Wiccan. It is an unfortunate fact in today?s society that I feel the need to not openly discuss my religious choice. I do wear a Pentacle around my neck in the way that many Christians wear crosses, and tend to leave it to the observant few to question me if they wish.

Ionesmum - ?Witch-hunts? still happen ? I have Wiccan friends who work in schools, hospitals and Social Services and they all keep their religion a secret ? not because they are ashamed but because they are only too aware of the reaction they will get if they are honest. In one case, someone decided to inform a friends employer that he was a Wiccan ? and he was hounded from his post and accused of child abuse! How extreme is that?

Fear is a terrible thing but it is often based in ignorance of the facts. The image of witches that is generally portrayed is one that the Christian Church invented (I am talking about the church as an establishment) many hundreds of years ago and had more to do with forming a patriarchal control over society than actual religious choice.

I expect that I have opened a real can of worms here ? and would not be at all surprised if I get no replies posted on this thread ? but since some of you have shown a genuine interest in my beliefs I am here if anyone wants to ask me questions or discuss this further. I am always up for a good theological argument

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In the past I have simply described Baby Jesus as a baby who grew up to be a very nice and important man who loved everyone and everything; Christmas (Yule in our house) is his birthday. This has been enough for now ? and I don?t feel that I am betraying my own faith, as the story is pretty much the same, only the names change. I will have to consider this more deeply as the boys grow and ask more questions.

The main fertility festival is Beltane (May Day). It is a time for feasting and merriment (we have a lot of those ) and we have a re-enactment of the marriage of the Goddess and the God - a maid and a man are crowned as the May Queen/Oak Lord. Remnants of this are seen in May Queen traditions, especially in English rural communities.

Actual rituals are a different matter. Rituals are a very personal thing (and I don?t really want to discuss details too much) and vary widely. Some Wiccans are ?solitary? and prefer to keep their worship between them and the God/Goddess ? others belong to groups (or covens tho? I don?t really like that name) and will share rituals. And yes, before anyone asks, fertility rituals can involve sex. Some groups may believe in actually performing the deed ? others will enact it symbolically (a dagger plunged into a goblet of wine is a common example). My personal view (and that of the group I belong to) is that sex is for loving, established couples and is not to be shared in public ? but what we may want to get up to when we get home to our partners after the ritual is another matter

I don?t believe in involving children in rituals. Yes, they come to our daytime parties at various times of the year and take part in celebrations such as Yule and Ostara ? but fertility festivals/rites are not something they should be involved in.

Thanks for sharing all this with us Snugs, it is absolutely fascinating and I'm off to look at that wiccan website now

S'okay. I'll have to ask Tech for one of these with a pointy hat tho'!

Snugs, thank you for telling us more about your religion - I have been really fascinated reading all about it and will have a think to see if I want to ask any questions - no time at present!!!!

Thanks for sharing all of this with us, Snugs. I am not religious in any form or way but am always interested in what anyone has to say. I believe that everyone has a right to believe in what they do and I respect them for whatever beliefs they have.

I am always open to suggestion about religion and my (ex) H used to laugh at me because, when JW knocked at my door, I used to invite them in. He said that no-one he knows even talks to them, let alone lets them in the house but I found them very easy to talk to, although some of the questions they asked me were a bit "deep".

Thanks very much for telling us more, Snugs - it has been really interesting. Do you mind my asking how you were first drawn to Wicca - was it at college or is it something you grew up with?

I was raised by a Spiritualist mother and an atheist Father. I was actually christianed in a Church of England church, but this was more to do with keeping the grandparents happy than anything else (this was the 60's).

I can't really remember any sort of discussion about religion when I was young. My siblings and I all have psychic abilities of varying strengths and when we asked questions we were given open answers, to the best of our parents abilities.

At the age of 13 I starting reading about religions and faiths - went through a stage of wanting to convert to any new one I came across - but never really found anything that answered the questions in my mind. Spiritualism came closest and I pretty much stuck with that.

Within the last year, I was invited to a group to discuss Wicca - something I had not really come across in detail. And it was like - WOW, this is it, I understand it all now, lights flashing bells ringing revelation!

On reflection, I have actually being living a very Pagan lifestyle for the last 15 years or so - just hadn't put a label on myself. But since discovering Wicca my life has changed dramatically from an emotional point of view - my friends and family can't believe the change in me. I feel incredibly lifted - something I never expected religion to give me. I can only assume this is how Born-Again Christians feel and why they are so particularly passionate about their beliefs.

Hmmm - dont think I was christianed - might have been christened tho

Hey Snugs there was this programme on last night called 'Losing It' presented by Anthony (Slimeball) Wilson. This CofE vicar lost his faith and became a Wiccan. However I don't think it showed the religion in a very good light, this vicar was also going through a mid-life crisis and having an affair, and I think it was his mistress who was a Wiccan originally. But it did raise some good points.

Oh - I missed that - what channel/time was it on Rhubarb? Will check out if anyone I know recorded it, would like to see what was said.

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I think it was on Ch4, about 11pm.

Cheers Rhubarb - wonder if it was a change of programme tho - can't find anything in last nights TV guide.

Snugs, it was a north west prog only, sorry not sure where you are? Rhubarb as you are a NW girl, do you remember when he was just plain ol' Tony Wilson? Pretintious git!

Yes, I remember when he was just Tony Wilson.
I saw the program and it gave me nightmares because there was a (methodist?) minister going on about the dangers of dabbling in the occult (from horoscopes onwards, as far as he was concerned). It was a good idea for a program, but a wasted opportunity in the event.

That explains it then - wrong area! Shucks - I'm really intrigued as to what was said.

Droile - I hope it wasn't anything about Wicca that gave you the nightmares.

thanks snugs for answering my question. You sound so sensible and balanced in the way you bring your children up, while practising your beliefs.

One thing that instantly appeals to me is that many of your celebrations and rituals are held at night. Lots of good reasons to go out when the children are in bed I suppose if both parners are practising wiccas, getting babysitting can be a problem.

I remember you saying on other threads that you gradually realised you and your siblings had spiritual powers as you grew up. If your children follow suit, it will make all the differenc if they have a parent like you who takes this seriously. I bet lots of non spiritualist parents aren't that sympathitic to their children, if faced with this.

Cheers tigermoth, I do my best (blush, blush).

My dh isn't a Wiccan (think he worships the sign of the Red Lion, honoured throughout the land at many local hostelries ) but he is very supportive of my beliefs and will always do the babysitting, so I'm lucky in that sense.

I have always believed that all children have emerging psychic abilities; it is the non-acceptance by others that causes thoses abilities to be 'shut-down' and grown out of. Being raised in a spiritual family - or at least an open minded one - can be a great help and these are the kids that often grow to be fantastically talented mediums (hmmm not in my own case tho!)

No Snugs, it wasn't, it was the born again christian type being melodramatic about satan. I think Wicca sounds nice and natural and very interesting.

Forgot to say, I agree about the psychic abilities of children. I've noticed many instances in of this in one of my friend's children (not mine, as yet).

Droile - I wish more people could understand or at least acknowledge when kids 'see' things.

I know that my ds1 can see auras as they appear in most of the pictures he draws. Many kids do this - putting colours around the outside of people and objects - but the adults dont realise and ignore it.

And of course 'imaginary friends' - IMO they are spirits and as long as they are happy ones I am quite content for them to stay around in my house for as long as they like. DS1 still occasionally has conversations with 'Daniel', a spirit I have been aware of in our home since we moved in over 10 years ago. Most children have grown out of this by the age of 3ish, but ds1 is still going strong at 5.

Actually, ds1 is always saying 'my friend just said this .. ' or 'my brother said that ..' when there is no-one there. ?
Apparently, Robbie Williams used to see spirits big time when he was little.

and now he just drinks them....

lol