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Original poster

Catholic V Church of England - main differences please

54 replies

SecondhandRose · 17/06/2004 20:16

My children go to a Catholic school although we are C of E. Please can anyone tell me what the basic differences are?

Also can I go to Mass and go up the front and do whatever it is they do (putting something in their mouths)?

Some of the Mums were honouring Mary with flowers during May, why would this be? Someone said to me that Mary is very important in the Catholic faith.

I'm sorry I sound such a thicky but I'm too embarrassed to ask at school and I know I can always rely on you.

OP posts:
ks · 18/06/2004 13:20

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Blu · 18/06/2004 13:22

KS: More likely that she was determined not to be outdone by a catholic! My Grandfather - a methodist lay preacher - used to sit in front of a bloodthirsty series abiut the Borgias gellfully rubbing his hands and saying "you see! Catholics!".
Methodists are HIGHLY suspicious of 'bells and smells' as Bloss calls it!

Tommy · 18/06/2004 13:23

Discordia - you could look at it in the same way that people talk to their dead relatives - people know they're dead but still talk to them because they believe they're in heaven or wherever. Talking to the saints and to Mary is a bit like that.

Tinker · 18/06/2004 13:23

Because Jesus is also God - the Holy Trinity thing. How can you find that confusing

discordia · 18/06/2004 13:26

Tommy - still confused. I don't believe that people's dead relatives can hear them. Also, I think there is something in the Bible which says that we shouldn't be trying to communicate with the dead. Will have to find out. Bet bloss would know.

bloss · 18/06/2004 13:27

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Blu · 18/06/2004 13:32

Bloss and SQ: That is really interesting to me because when i was a child it was cited as one of the main theological 'issues' between catholics and 'low church' - and the explanation was based in the misunderstanding you have dispelled, SQ.

bloss · 18/06/2004 13:34

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bloss · 18/06/2004 13:41

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discordia · 18/06/2004 13:41

Oh, bloss, how disappointing. I had you down as a walking concordance. I agree, these discussions are great for making you go away and see what the Bible says. How about Isaiah 8:19 "When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people enquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?" I am genuinely interested in how RC's can talk to Mary, etc, and not call it prayer?

marialuisa · 18/06/2004 13:42

orthodox and coptic churches hold their saints in same regard as RC, as i understand it.

bloss · 18/06/2004 13:44

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discordia · 18/06/2004 13:48

I will blame my slow internet connection for the fact I was 14 seconds behind you bloss.

discordia · 18/06/2004 13:49

Anyway, stop these interesting conversations, I have work to do. I will go and look at a thread about nappies or something to encourage me back to work.

monkey · 18/06/2004 14:28

discordia, they don't 'talk to mary and not call it prayer. the 'hail mary' (for example' is a prayer, but i guess what is meant is that the Saints aren't worshipped in prayer, mearly asked for help, to put it very simply. I'll try & do a link - never before done mind - this is a good pagesite which might help

Oh, it won't work i;'m sure. I'm a dummy and should be packing anyway - going on holiday & moving house next week.

hmb · 18/06/2004 14:45

The begining of the Hail Mary is a dierect quote from the Bible isn't it? Isn't it what the Angel says to Mary when she is told about being the mother of Jesus?

monkey · 18/06/2004 14:57

yeah, it's not just the 1st bit - it's over half & yes, quotes what Gabriel says to her. and the prayer ends asking her to pray for us.

Tommy · 18/06/2004 15:18

Discordia - just because you don't believe that people's dead relatives can hear them, doesn't mean that it's not true or that some people do believe it! If you believe in eternal life then all these dead people (including Mary and the saints)are alive in Heaven aren't they? If you don't believe in eternal life then chances are you don't believe in God anyway and probably shouldn't be worrying so much about the differences and similarities betweeen the RCs and CofE!
Also, you can probably find a bible quote to cover most things if you look hard enough

Tissy · 18/06/2004 15:28

But if dead people are alive in heaven it doesn't necessarily follow that they can hear you, does it?

hmb · 18/06/2004 15:33

I've been thinking about this. I'm not a Catholic btw. Thinking about the words of the Hail Mary, no-one is 'worshiping' Mary, they are venerating her, saying that she is blessed and asking for her to pray for them. It doesn't contradict the words of Isaiah or Duteronemy. No one is consulting Mary, ie asking her for information, they are asking her to pray for them. Different thing I think?

discordia · 18/06/2004 16:42

Tommy - sorry if I sounded as if I was rubbishing other people's beliefs, I didn't mean to, just typing as I thought, should think first.

I do believe in eternal life, I'm a Christian. However, there's a difference between being alive on earth and alive in heaven. What I'm trying to say is that if somebody has died and gone to heaven that doesn't make them omnipresent like God. What do others think? Are people in heaven watching those of us left behind or have they got better things to do?

I wasn't trying to find a bible quote just to back up my opinion - just trying to get an understanding on what the bible teaches.

I think my main concern is that there doesn't seem to be anything in the bible about honouring Mary or giving her any special status after her life on earth.

muddaofsuburbia · 18/06/2004 17:32

I'm with you on this one Discordia. To say that Heaven's inhabitants can hear us and thereby involve themselves in life on Earth, despite having left their mortal bodies behind, doesn't sit right with me.

I always thought that once in heaven you would be transformed into your true self, as God had intended. I like the "Great Divorce" by CS Lewis - he has a great way of making you think twice about reality. Doesn't the Bible talk about us not recognising one another or something? Once in heaven I imagine I will be so caught up in eternal worship and praise for Jesus and all that he's done for me that to be concerned with matters on earth would almost be like ingratitude. I'm speaking for myself as I ponder this out loud btw.

I don't believe there are widescreen TVs and Big Brother headphones in heaven - our earthly lives are finito and our true existence begins - I'm certainly not planning on interfering in the lives of others by listening in on their prayers. I don't believe that in heaven we'll have any more access to mind reading than we do on earth - ie none.

Original poster
SecondhandRose · 19/06/2004 08:22

Crumbs! think I need to print it all off. Thanks girls, keep it coming.

It is a nice school but I do feel a bit of an outsider as I am not one of 'them'.

But honestly I don't feel the need for religion in my life whatever the religion and sometimes that makes me feel guilty which I know is silly.

I sometimes wonder about becoming a Catholic then I can become more involved at school. Will have a think about it, is it a lot of work to convert?

OP posts:
hmb · 19/06/2004 08:41

Just to put things into context I am a very lapsed Baptist and I do not practice any religion.

I think that it is great that you are interested in Catholisism and that you want to take an active part in the school that your dd attends.

But I don't think that you can honestly become a Catholic (or any other religious affiliation) if you don't feel the need for religion in your life. wanting to become an 'anything' will need you to want religion in your life IYSWIM.

I hope that my writing this hasn't offended you in any way. And who is to say that things will not change if you find out about Catholicism? But I don't think that it would be right to become a Catholic so that you can take an active role in the school. Sorry if I misunderstood your meaning and I hope that I haven't offended you.

Tommy · 19/06/2004 09:32

Secondhandrose - I think you may find that a lot of the parents at your children's school aren't Catholic and I'm sure you can be just as involved in what's going on with out converting. I think hmb is right - there seems to be little point in converting if you don't feel any need for religion in your life. If you are interested though and want to find out about the Catholic church, I'm sure if you asked at the local parish they would have a "Journey in Faith" course for adults - they normally start in September and you could go a long to that without any pressure or obligation to become a Catholic at the end of it. My friend did this course (his wife and children are Catholic) but felt at the end, although he'd found it interesting, didn't want to go the whole hog and convert.
HTH