Would you shop them?

[hercules]

Dh's cousin who has a wife and 3 kids is frauding the benefit system (99.9 sure).

They were renting privately then he "hit" her after 15 years of marriage which resulted in him being arrested and her with kids going to a b& b where he joined them.
She was given a large house where he also lived. About one year later they "bought" a large house despite only him working on a low wage and the house being at least £250,000.
They have lots of money now, bought new people carrier, big tv etc and she has no intentions of going to work.
We couldnt work out how they managed it as they are on a far less income than we are but we struggle.
They will not give out their land line number and when dh did get it from his aunt his wife answered it and not realisign it was dh said her husband didnt live there. Her husband then phoned dh bakc and saidhe'd been on the toilet.
Dh's aunt today said to him why dont we calim single parent benefit and get a house, that it is possible to claim single parent benefit and get your mortgage paid by claiming to rent from someone.
Dh explained why we wouldnt do that and realised that is what his cousin is gdoing. Dh wouldnt dream of shopping them but I have to say it does annoy me as we work so hard and pay lots of taxes but they do have 3 kids and I would hate tobe responsible for the parents being sent to prison.
It does irritate me that they are taking advantage of a system meant for people in need and i tell myself that it sets a poor example to their kids.
What would you do?

sonnet

No wish to get caught up in a huge benefits debate since I've made my views clear before (and I've only skim read this thread) but I agree with MeanBean and Dinosaur. Hercules, what makes it your business? You don't know what's going on and you're making some big assumptions imo. I really think you should try not to worry about it.

Not big assumptions www. It is the only explanation and has been pretty much confirmed by the mother who suggested we do the same thing.

I guess i see it as my business cos of the taxes we pay however i have decided not to do anything about it.

You obviously know the facts Hercules.

The benefits system is there to help people who need it and I for one am happy for my taxes to go to these people - one day it might be me that needs help. I am not happy, however, for it to go to the people who think they can scam the system rather than work for a living, and do this deliberately.

Its theft.

There is a phone number you can call anonymously. I live in a street where there are a few benefits cheats and believe me they know how to work the system! It bugs the hell out of me and one of my "friend" neighbours shopped her next door neighbour who was working and claiming and selling drugs from the house (they have two little girls who are having a hellish time.)

I used to be easy going about this sort of thing but am totally fed up with the amount of abuse the system gets. Whenever I have tried to get genuine help I have been turned down, that included loosing out on all maternity pay! My friends DH sometimes works on the side but that I would ignore as he cannot earn a wage they could live on, we just get by on low income but they would sink. Those who are milking it then, shop them.

Your tax is paying for them after all.

I agree. As has already been said, my argument is not with people who are on benefits. Mt argument is this: I have been a single parent for five years now and have worked full time throughout. There have been nights when i have come home from work and literally cried because i was so tired and still couldnt rest (tea to make, washing, housework, attempt to spend time with ds etc) Its been 11pm some nights before ive even sat down, let along have my own tea and get a bath. Every bit of DIY on my house has been done by me, and every penny ive earned has gone into making a confortable life for ds and myself. So yes, i am very down on benefit frauds who are using me and others to pay for their lavish lifestyles. I would be bitter too if i was in hercules shoes, but having said that, it is true that you cant choose your family and often cant avoid them either so guilt does become a part of it.

I've just found this thread, it's quite interesting, and I've changed my mind about it as it's gone on. I think there is a vast difference between people like Hercules' in-laws, who appear to defraud the benefit system as a way of life, and the odd benefit cheat who doesn't declare that their aunt/ mother/ brother, has just bunged them £100 to tide them over, because the kids have just had another growth spurt and there is simply no more money in the pot to pay for a new pair of shoes. I really don't see anything morally wrong with accepting much needed financial help and not declaring it, because benefit levels are so low that it is simply not possible to live on them for any length of time. We could all do it for 2 weeks, but when you are having to do it month after month, with no treats for your kids, no treats for you, the sheer drudge of it must be awful. I think it is just cruel to condemn people to this level of existence. If benefit levels accorded people dignity and social inclusion, then I would be the first to say that benefit cheats should be locked up, but as long as benefits leave people in such terrible poverty (and they do - I don't understand all these people who seem to believe that you can immediately legally get £250,000 houses as soon as you go on benefits), then benefit fraud is an understandable and sometimes necessary practice.

But these people don't seem to be starving or in poverty - they ar edeliberately cheating the system getting money from me or you in the way of taxes that we pay and using it to buy tellys and cars - if it meant that they could buy food or shoes for their kids I think even I could turn a bkind eye but to do it to the extent thay they are living a better life than the honest hard working people who are going to work and paying taxes - they deserve to be shopped.

I'll do it if you don't want the guilt - email me.

but without cold hard facts, how can one make a decision as to their life "post grassing"?

if one gets a loan and buys a telly. one cannot tell the loan company to take it away. there are court proceedings, extra costs incurred. then the bailiffs come to take your telly, for which you are charged. then they sell your telly for £10 then they take this off what you owe and you end up owing more.

this would apply to whatever items they have taken a loan out for.

i still do not understand the house issue as am a bit mixed up. is the mortage their mortgage or is it a friends mortgage and they are living rent free effectivley becuase benefits are paying?

so lets suppose they get shopped and then the whole family have to move. set up a new home - with associated costs, including a telly. the kids have to move school and the family could very well end up being on the bread line - but still have a nice telly - they have not finished paying for.

also on the " my mum just bunged me £100 to tide me over" school of thought. this too is fraud if you do not disclose it. in my work i give residents M&S vouchers as a thank you for participating. if they do not disclose this ( as i am sure they will not) this is taken as payment in kind and will be taken as benefit fraud and taken off their benefits.

I agree with Custardo. Strongly. And dino and WWW and meanbean and oliveoil. I think I'm squeamish- the idea of shopping people for benefit fraud makes me feel all sordid and petty and uncomfortable.

How do you know the domestic violence didn't happen, btw, Hercules? Lots of women do return to violent partners.

The reason we are about as sure as you can be is that the guy has done a mortgage before with false papers via a dodgy person in a bank and it is far more common than you think - the whole fraud thing if you know how to do it.
Of course i dont know 100% but if they were innocent and she wasnt claiming single parent benefit and the house was in their names then the dss would reaslise that straightaway. If they are innocent then it wouldnt go very far.
You are right though which is why i will do
nothig, it does feel very sordid and i'm not shopping them not because i care about them as such but ecause i dont want to hide it from dh and i will know them for many years to come.
One way of doing it is to move ito someone elses home and they move into yours. You then both claim hb and get your mortgage paid. (my sis told me this as she had a course recently in the police).
All the guy needs to do is get false papers for the amount he earns in someone elses name using their ni number and then rent out his house to his wife and hb will pay it. As i said if you know the right people which he does it is not difficult. i guess that is whyb the shop line exists as it is so hard to catch people unless someone does shop them.
I have to say i feel much happier having decided to do nothing.

I used to work in the fraud section of dwp and a huge proportion of money allocated for benefits is claimed fraudulently every week. I personally would report them but I can understand why you might not want to. You can report benefit fraud by telephone or letter (to your local office or the hotline) or can do it online- don't know the website but a search for NAtional Benfit Fraud should find it.

It is unlikely they would go to prison, although not impossible especially if either of them have any previous convictions.

P>S if you did report them it would be completely confidential- you don't need to give your name

I have only skim read this thread and I can see both sides, if it wasn't family I would be tempted to shop them, but the fact that they have children would probably stop me.

Benefit fraud is probably a fact of life I'm afraid when legally claimed benefits do not pay enough to take you above the poverty line.

Although on the subject of benefit fraud, what I did think was amusing was the programme on BBC2 about mentors for young offenders and on the first programme the mentor encouraged the young man she was supposed to be helping to get cash in hand work when he was claiming benefit - that would have been a great help to him when the fraud officer saw the programme!

Fairly irrelevant now but dh phoned his uncle and whilst on the phone his cousin called round to collect his post which goes there. They do have 3 children and i guess had little choice. It cant be easy living in fear of being caught.