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Original poster

Do we have a responsibility to others?

56 replies

stupidgirl · 03/04/2004 20:19

A conversation I had last night (which I may well rant about later, as I'm still very upset/angry about it...), made me wonder what everyone else thought...

Do we have a responsibility to other people? Thinking specifically about people in the 3rd world/fair trade type issues?

So you think the everyday decisions you make (where you shop, what brand of washing powder you buy, etc) really do make a difference? Are you prepared to change the way you do things on the basis of those convictions, and if you aren't, does that make you selfish?

OP posts:
StripyMouse · 03/04/2004 22:05

don?t send that email SG. If you are long term friends and this is just one conversation, give yourself time to calm down and then make up soon. After all, you are both concerned about the same things, just from different angles. Got to say though, she does sound a bit patronising and if she puts you down like this a lot, perhaps rather than fight about it, it is time to let the friendship go, keep your dignity and concentrate on more rewarding and positive friendships instead.

Original poster
stupidgirl · 03/04/2004 22:08

Stripymouse, that was her argument, although it went along the line of 'you can't live without having a negative impact, but that means there's no point trying'

My way of looking at it is 'you can't live without having a negative impact, but each one of us has the responsibilty to reduce that impact as much as we can (within reason)'.

I want to put back what I take out. I can't do that 100%, but I can still make a difference, and a little is better than nothing.

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Chinchilla · 03/04/2004 22:13

You sound lovely SG, and I wish that I was more li
ke you. My sole contribution to others is recycling, and that is only because it is made so easy for us in our area. You and your 'friend' have obviously grown apart. That's sad, but often happens when you have known someone for so long.

StripyMouse · 03/04/2004 22:16

I also totally disagree with the "there?s no point trying". That is quite naive and very defeatist. Of course there is a point and if everyone just focussed on the negative side of our living then we would just either give up trying altogether or spend our lives very depressed. My point is that we just have to be careful that, while doing as much as we personally can, it is worth now and again reviewing what we do and just checking to see if there is anything more we should be doing that is compatable and realistic with modern day to day living.

Chinchilla · 03/04/2004 22:18

Anyway, I'm knackered. I'm heading off to bed now, as it's my turn to get up tomorrow (dh out with mates for beers and curry tonight). DON'T send an email SG, no matter how tempted. Remain aloof (Britain needs loofs!) Mantra for tonight - I AM RIGHT. THE WORLD IS A BETTER AND HAPPIER PLACE BECAUSE I AM NICE. Repeat at intervals untils feeling happier. Night night.

Freckle · 03/04/2004 22:21

The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke. I think this is a very good philosophy and we all have a duty to do everything we can to battle against evil, whether that evil is poverty, famine, war..... Clearly, analysing everything we buy for ethicality is not practicable, but we do have a duty to do what we can within the constraints of our lives.

Get enough invididuals together and you've got an army.

Original poster
stupidgirl · 03/04/2004 22:30

Stripymosue, Chinchilla and Freckle, thanks, all of you for listening to my ranting and for saying kind things.

I agree wholeheartedly with all of you. It makes me angry when people just bury their heads in the sand and choose not to do anything because it's easier not to. Just because you don't see the consequences of your actions, it doesn't mean there aren't any. As stripymouse said, it's not possible to live in our society as it is without contributing in some way to the bad stuff. But that only means we all have a responsibility to do our best to reverse it.

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Janh · 03/04/2004 22:46

sg, have come late to this and haven't read every word but it sounds to me as if having a job "in fashion" is very important to her, and as you can't with integrity work in a field mainly concerned with appearances and still claim to feel responsibility for the lives of those worse off than you then that's what's had to give.

She is wracked with guilt probably but can't admit it to herself, let alone to others.

You keep making your contribution and be proud of it.

mammya · 03/04/2004 22:48

I'm with you on this one SG. But don't send the email! (BTDT, regretted it...)

Original poster
stupidgirl · 03/04/2004 22:55

I must admit I did ask her how she could reconcile a job in fashion with an interest in fair trade and human rights, and the comment came back, 'oh no, I'm not actually interested in all that'.

Thinking back, she always has been ridiculously selfish. She has never thought about anyone but herself. She has this image of herself as this great person who everyone admires and looks up to. Maybe all this stems from an inferiority complex (thanks to her parents) rather than a superiority complex. Perhaps her way of coping is to convince herself that she's doing important things and that she's superior. I dunno. Does that put me in the wrong?

I'm just sick to death of this message I keep getting that she's more important than me because she's in fashion (all be it one step up from sweeping the floors (oooh, bitchy!)) and I'm just a mum.

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cazzybabs · 03/04/2004 22:57

Yes we do have a responsibility to others but we are limited by society.

I try and buy organic/free range/ fair trade when I can and am limited by money - they are much more expensive. I use real nappies and don't have a car. I use public transport when I can. I recycle my rubbish. I try and teach my children (I am a teacher) about people in different countries. I used to volunteer for Oxfam. I wish I did more.

As an individual I doubt my actions make a difference but I feel I do have a responsibilty to everyone. I think we need the goverment to make a stand on these issues, e.g. more money into renewable energy, more money into public transport - you need encorage people to not use their cars. Also our goverment and others needs to put pressure on 3rd world to stop them investing in wars and greed and invest in healthcare etc. However none of these are vote winers or need tax rises and so no-one of these will ever be addressed.

handlemecarefully · 03/04/2004 23:01

She sounds a bit of an arse Stupidgirl!

Yes we do have a responsibility to others - can't see the validity of a counter argument really.

cazzybabs · 03/04/2004 23:01

Stupidgirl - can you not agree to disagree? I think your friend sounds jealous of you. It sounds like she needs a sex (does she have a bf? because if she does then she needs a new one!). I think if people had more sex the world would be a better place!!!!

Original poster
stupidgirl · 03/04/2004 23:16

Lol, I think I like that theory Cazzybabes. Perhaps its me that needs sex and then it wouldn't all bother me so much!

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cazzybabs · 03/04/2004 23:23

Ahh but you have children which means you no longer have/want sex . Sex is something you do when you don't have children or you want them!!!! Because the rest of the time you are asleep, too tired or mopping up sick.

Paula71 · 03/04/2004 23:25

We do have a responsibility. But not to be as patronising as saying that people don't want food, water, education. For goodness sake, I have had work colleagues (back in the days when I worked and wasn't a "lazy" SAHM har har!) and friends who have gone to university and come out the other side totally up themselves!

I get the snidey comments how as I don't work (or rather don't do paid work) I shouldn't have an opinion on issues. My answer of the moment is that if it is so easy why do they pay nurseries, if all nursery staff must do is sit around watching TV? It is really annoying!

I try to do the right thing but don't give money to those idiots in the street (you know the ones with the natty little vests and the attitude of shame on you for not signing away "just £2 per month".) I give to local charities first and foremost, where I can see the good being done.

I wonder if these third world charity workers don't go to these places and act all superior. Like, look at us, we are here to help you because you can't cope on your own, useless lot.

I do believe in helping people help themselves. I just think those charities have to be very careful how they do that.

Original poster
stupidgirl · 03/04/2004 23:48

But I feel like it's the whole way society is set up that;s at fault. If companies were made to be accountable for the problems they cause, then a lot of these charities wouldn't need to exist. And surely it;s up to us as consumers to make them accountable?

OP posts:
StripyMouse · 04/04/2004 00:00

blimey SG, sounds like you are still wound up about this one. Got to agree with you about the large companies - particularly when it comes to recycling and packaging. The amount of unnecessary plastic wrappers inside another plastic holder tub thing then surrounded by a cardboard box placed in a plastic bag...

grumpyzebra · 04/04/2004 07:02

SG: Working in fashion, or even having a university degree, is not a qualification or indicator of her superiority! Among us eco-freaks and latent socialists, the prejudices runs very strongly the other way, I'm afraid.

JJ · 04/04/2004 09:19

SG, I agree with you. I think every little bit helps, so if someone can't afford to go all out, doing a little is a step in the right direction. For example, the supermarkets here sell many fair-trade items at the same cost as the non-fair trade items. This is down to consumer demand and new items are being added continually.

But it depends what's important to you. We only give token support to 3rd world issues and our main charity is one which was local to us when we lived in Chicago. I think it's necessary to have people give (in time or money) to causes they believe in and I get annoyed when people think their chosen charity is the only worthwhile one. Not that you've done that at all! Just something that bugs me from time to time.

Of course that's nothing compared to people who don't believe in social services of any kind and don't give at all to anything. Now that's hypocritical! Luckily, no one seems to be like that here.

I'm ranting, aren't I? Agree with zebra, too... change your name back!

bossykate · 04/04/2004 10:35

i do think we have a responsibility to others. i do support green initiatives, fair trade and charities both in this country and in the third world. however, i don't do as much as i should

sg - please change your name and drop this so-called "friend"!

bossykate · 04/04/2004 10:37

sorry, meant to say that one of the satisfying things about e.g. going greener is that every little helps - even recycling say one newspaper means there is one less thing in landfill. saying it is all or nothing, imho, is letting "the best stand in the way of the good".

Original poster
stupidgirl · 04/04/2004 20:52

Thanks everyone

Today I am calm and no longer wound up (well, only a little bit!). I didn't send the email, and the desire to do so is almost gone. Thanks for listening me rant last night, it did help

JJ, I have come across one of those people. Her attitude seems to be that charities shouldn't need to exist (the worthy causes should be supported by government money) therefore she won't support them. To me that's just a cop-out. 'It's not my problem, why should I care?' kind of thing. And I find it incredibly selfish and shortsighted.

I guess maybe I should stop being so judgemental, but if everyone felt that way then just think how much of a worse state the world would be in.

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kiwisbird · 04/04/2004 21:01

Well any uni student who still esposes faith in the Gov't is obviously seriously deluded... And also
I had argument with dearest friend once about the IRA - she was in RAF and so was her hubby, I come from very republican Irish Catholic family, we got wires seriously crossed and in her drunken misguided blame throwing I was the one who agreed bombs in rubbish bins were justified.
She didn't listen to me properly.
We agreed to disagree and are friends untested again
It is possible

bloss · 05/04/2004 05:04

Message withdrawn