Halloween Hypocrite!

[lilibet]

Been reading all the threads on the making of halloween costumes etc, and do feel that I am the only one who will not let their children participate! Someone please tell me that I am not? We have a party at our church on the 31st October and my children go to that, and always enjoy it, I would never let them go trick or treating having explained that I feel that it is wrong to threaten people in order to get sweets, or if you aren't going to play a trick its begging!
This does come across as so heavy, and I don't mean it to, but I cant beleive that I'm the only one who feels this way.
Why the hypocrite? Because I give sweets out as in the past I have had my front door smeared with jam and eggs thrown at my windows and its the easiest option! I have never done any doorstop preaching just in case anyone is thinking that I deserve it for being a stuck up cow, but have simply said 'sorry, we don't celebrate Halloween'. My mum who is 76 and lives on her own absoluley dreads tonight, as she hates answering the door after dark as she doesn't know who is there and is scared that if she doesn't answer someone will do something horrid to her.
What do other mumsnetters think?

Lillibet - In Scotland its different. Here we call it Guising and as a child I never once said Trick or Treat to anyone.
We just knocked on doors in our costumes (not necessarily scary ones)... we asked if they wanted guisers (sp?). We were invited in and sang a song/did a dance/told a few good jokes then we were given treats. Whe we were young it was our immediate neighbours. Then as we got older we went round our whole naighbourhood!

Very profitable let me add.

So it's a slightly different concept here.

Lilibet, you're not alone. I don't "do" Halloween, but have bought sweets for first time this year as I suspect we have moved into a "trick or treating" area. There's no way I will let DD go out when she's older for the reasons you've mentioned. It's been commercialised into a pale copy of what happens in the USA but i think the undercurrent is a bit "meaner" here.

Mind you, we always but reduced pumpkins and make lots of lovely soup after halloween and DH will carve faces, but DD prefers them to be smiley!

I was rudely interruptted last night at 10 to 9 by 2 10/11 year olds knocking loudly on my door and disurbing DS. It was dark, freezing cold and pouring with rain - it also was NOT Halloween. So, I'm afraid I explained this to them quite forcefully and I don't think I'll be seeing them again tonight. I don't mind early evening toddlers/primary kids but find it quite threatening faced with people nearly as tall as me after I have locked the door for the evening. We never did this as kids and I can't see the fun in it either! Maybe we're just miserable old bags!!!

we used to sing that song

We're witches of haloween,oooooooh
we're the ugliest you've ever seenooh
we fly through the night
and give you a fright..........BOO
we're witches of haloween

I live in a house now where i have to go out of the front door to open the gate, the thought of going into the pitch black to open my gate and see scary stuff would give me the creeps so i'm just gonna turn off my bell

DD is 17 months so its not an issue yet, but when older she will go to the local churches' "Hallelujah" party on 1st November. No way is she going out begging and scaring old ladies. Also I'm not into celebrating evil spirits. I don't think Halloween is 'just a bit of fun' - in fact as so many Mumsnetters have said recently, its not fun at all!

I'm contemplating putting a note on the door that says something like "We don't celebrate Halloween. Please don't ring the bell or make a noise as the baby is asleep". If there is an adult with them or if they are reasonable they'll go away. If not they're probably going to throw eggs whether you answer the door or not. In the past when we've had eggs thrown, its been by people who didn't even bother to ring the bell - they just thought it was ok to go out on a vandalism spree because it was Halloween.

I think the government / schools need to do a big advert campaign at this time of year to make kids realise how frightening they can be to old people, and also that vandalism on halloween is still wrong. And don't get me started on the utterly bizarre concept of spending all year telling your kids not to talk to strangers, and then one night sending your kids out to knock on stranger's doors after dark. Aagh! The whole Halloween thing is completely mad. Roll on Bonfire night.

I think bon fire night is FAAAAR worse! I would rather have kids throws eggs than lit fireworks!

And the concept of letting your child watch the Guy burn on a huge fire???? Isn't it like taking them to watch an execution?

If there were only organised displays allowed on bonfire night, it would be so much better, less injuries and no stupid kids scaring my cats stiff for weeks before.
I don't think that seeing some old rags and paper burn is worse than messing about with the devil (who I beleive is a real force in the world)and evil spirits.
And Guy Fawkes wasn;t even burned, so does anyone know whay we do this?

Eeek! Do kids chuck lit fireworks around the streets where you are then? We'll be at the primary school display where they don't let spectators have anything lit - not even sparklers. DD is the original party animal and loves fireworks so I'm really looking forward to it (she'll be watching the sky, I'll be watching her face ).

I agree the burning effigy bit is a tad wierd - how old does a child have to be before you can explain that poor old Guy Fawkes was a scapegoat for a bunch of Catholics and Protestants who were too busy fighting each other to bother reading what the Bible says about love? Mind you, dd will probably grow up quite matter of fact about death, given the amount of time we spend talking about Jesus...

Sorry, I'm hijacking. Will stop now and go and do something useful with dd's naptime.

I agree - fireworks should not be sold to the general public - they've been going off round us for about 3 weeks now ! It's ridiculous and so expensive. I love fireworks but to get a decent display you have to go somewhere organised - a little box in Sainsburys was over £30.

Lilibet - maybe burning a Guy is easier than hanging, drawing and quartering one? Now that would be really gross (or v entertaining, depending on your point of view I suppose!).

Must go and do some housework. Shall go and do some...

Ous school is the same - no sparklers, its a safety issue and I dont mind. We have them when we get home. Not got any yet either!!

We do do Halloween, but in a slightly different way. We're in Scotland and we always went 'guising' as kids, but dh grew up in Northern Ireland where they weren't allowed bonfire night (no fireworks! He didn't see a fireworks display until he was about 15!). SO their family always had a big bonfire on Halloween (to scare away the evil spirits, apparantly) and played silly games and had lots of food and dressed up and had sparklers (you were allowed them - not enough gunpowder to make a bomb I presume). They did, like us, all the usual stuff of bobbing for apples and we still play my Dad's ghastly treacle scone game (eat a scone covered in treacle hanging from a string on your knees with your hands behind your back and you never knew when Dad was going to bounce the whole string of them and send treacle everywhere!).
So thats what we'll do tonight, if the rain holds off. And we'll be doing it at about 6.00 cos our kids are only little, then the adults (us and our neighbours) will eat and drink mulled wine - not bad really!
And as we are Christians we also light a candle in every window and pray together before we do any of the rest of it. My family always did this too - the candle (supposedly) shows the witches etc that you have the 'Light of the World' in your house and they are not welcome.
I really don't get the idea of doing awful things to people on Halloween. We had to 'do a turn' to get anything and if people said no then you just left. Maybe kids are more mercenary these days

Zerub I agree about more awareness of vandalism etc. I read in the paper the other day that all the supermarkets have stopped selling eggs and flour to kids.Not much but it is a step in the right direction.

I agree about the children knocking on strangers doors but they should always be accompanied by parents or at least another adult.

What I dont like is the mums who send their kids out and yet dont answer the door to other neighbourhood kids. I have one at the end of our row who does this every year and her children are unaccompanied. Stingy and irresponsible she is.

We are going to a Hallowe'en party (up til midnight last two nights, ripping old pillowcases into bandages and sewing them onto an old pair of pajamas for ds1..wants to go as a mummy) but I hate Trick or Treating and would never let my children do it. I don't answer the door on Hallowe'en and I take the batteries out of my doorbell. We don't do Bonfire Night either - I think fireworks (apart from organised displays) should be banned.

Just call me Victor Meldrew!

We have now blown out our candles, and the children are in bed. Our party went very well, and we had a happy time calling on houses that were decorated. The only children to call on us were small and supervised or very polite older children who had put a lot of effort into dressing up.

To my mind the award for the kindest person went to the lady who had decorated her house with fairy lights and angels. She very sweetly told the children that she didn't celibrate Halloween because she was a Christian, but gave them all a home made angel biscuit in a beautiful wrapper with the message, 'Angels watch over you' printed on it. I thought that was such a kind and positive way to deal with the quandry that Halloween gives some Christians.

Like M2T I'm in Scotland and when I was young we would go out guising. we would have a whole routine worked out with singing dancing and jokes and go round our neighbours where we were invited in to do our piece and then we were given sweets/fruit and sometimes 2p and 1p coins. sometimes slightly more but always small change if we got money.

Halloween was always a fun night where I live. Nobody ever got nasty and threw anything like eggs or flour that seems to be a custom that has started in the past few years, not sure where is has came from but it isn't something that we have ever been bothered with in our street. If when we went out people didn't want guisers at their doors they just wouldn't answer the door and we would just go away and leave them alone in peace. We never caused trouble.

This year dd went to the halloween party at her school and then we came home to have our halloween tea. We had quite a few gusiers round the door this year all with good costumes on and accommpanied by adults. When we opened the door they all said Trick or Treat but we told them that they had to tell us a joke or sing a song or something before we would give them any treats. They were all happy to oblige and one girl even did a backflip and earned herself a cake

And now we are looking forward to Bonfire night when we will go to the big public display in town like we have done every year since dd was born. There haven't been to many fireworks going off around where we live but I do agree that fireworks shouldn't be sold to the public and should only be used for organised displays for safety reasons.

Like M2T I'm in Scotland and when I was young we would go out guising. we would have a whole routine worked out with singing dancing and jokes and go round our neighbours where we were invited in to do our piece and then we were given sweets/fruit and sometimes 2p and 1p coins. sometimes slightly more but always small change if we got money.

Halloween was always a fun night where I live. Nobody ever got nasty and threw anything like eggs or flour that seems to be a custom that has started in the past few years, not sure where is has came from but it isn't something that we have ever been bothered with in our street. If when we went out people didn't want guisers at their doors they just wouldn't answer the door and we would just go away and leave them alone in peace. We never caused trouble.

This year dd went to the halloween party at her school and then we came home to have our halloween tea. We had quite a few gusiers round the door this year all with good costumes on and accommpanied by adults. When we opened the door they all said Trick or Treat but we told them that they had to tell us a joke or sing a song or something before we would give them any treats. They were all happy to oblige and one girl even did a backflip and earned herself a cake

And now we are looking forward to Bonfire night when we will go to the big public display in town like we have done every year since dd was born. There haven't been to many fireworks going off around where we live but I do agree that fireworks shouldn't be sold to the public and should only be used for organised displays for safety reasons.

oops sorry, don't know how that happened

Zerub - Halloween is NOT about celebrating evil spirits!

Susanmt - Pagans also put candles in their windows - so it certainly doesn't keep the witches out It is supposed to be to help guide any family spirits back to your hearth - so that you can drink a toast to them and their memory. And we have big bonfires too - usually because we like to party outside and it is a useful way to keep warm!

Snugs - I agree, to an extent. For most people, Halloween is about dressing up and having a party. For a few people (witches, satanists) its a very special day of the year, involving spirits that I think are evil. As such I prefer not to celebrate Halloween.

Also its not the candle that keeps the witches out, its the prayer!

I agree with the others that have said that fireworks should be banned except in organised displays, but I enjoy making halloween a bit of an event - we always have pumpkin lanterns and dd1 dresses up but this year we went trick or treating for the first time and she absolutely loved it. Funnily enough, it was the more mature people who were rude to her and slammed the door in her face. Most people were lovely though. We would never 'trick', and round here I have never heard of anyone else tricking either. Its just a bit of fun. Having lived in the USA when I was little, I love the whole dressing up bit, and over there they used to really go for it, there were kids everywhere in fabulous costumes, and the whole thing was done for fun.

Zerub - I was speaking from a witch?s point of view. Halloween is a festival of worship, thanksgiving, harvest and the New Year. It is nothing to do with evil spirits.

Satanists may well have a different viewpoint but since they have nothing to do with paganism or witchcraft then they have just hijacked the holiday for their own devices.

Fair enough if you don't want to celebrate it, that?s quite understandable, but please do not denigrate another religion?s festivals by calling them evil.

I posted about costumes on Friday abnd have to agree with you about halloween - what a weird concept it is - begging !

I realise that now I have children I will have to go along with it - but will not take them trick or treating until thay are old enough to ask.

My elderly neighbours are afraid too especially as the costumes are quite menacing these days and our local trick or treaters are by no means little either!

I'm not keen on fireworks either and am fed up with bangers going off at this time of year and up to and patst Christmas as peopele seem to use them to celebrate anything these days - bah.....humbug! Thwey scare my neighbours too and our cat! - ban them all apart from organised displays which I think are fab and usually early evening which is fine.

Lilibet - We just pretended not to be in. Your mum doesn't have to answer the door - if they think she's not in, I can't see why anyone would do anything horrible.
My parents had eggs thrown at their door and were very upset.

Ohhh you miserable lot!!!!
I can't believe you want fireworks banned!
Well sorry but we'll be having the usual little back garden display for my FIL whose birthday is 5 November and for my best friend who's birthday is on the 6th. Me and all the kids and other mums and dads are really looking forward to it.
I can't wait to oohhh and aaahhhh while sipping mulled wine and watching the delight on my daughters face and the faces of my friends kids.
I'm not saying I think it's OK that young kids get hold of them and let them off in the streets but I'm not really aware of that happening. All I know is that our private little fireworks parties are always great fun and should not be banned.

Happy Guy Fawkes night everyone