Parent and toddler parking

[mumbojumbo]

I completely lost the plot today at my local M&S / Tesco in Camberley. I had been hunting a parking space for some time when I spotted a parent and toddler space become vacant. Before I could get there, another car nicked the spot. I noticed pretty quickly that it was full of adults (senior citizens). I have nothing against seniors but being 39+1 weeks pregnant with a 23 month old toddler in tow, the red mist decended! I went over and had a word with the driver to the tune of.....did he realise that this was a space for parents with young children.....the reply from one of the passengers was that they had someone who couldn't walk very far and there were no disabled spaces (no disabled badge either). Normally I'm quite laid back about this, but I did point out that I'm 39 weeks pregnant and I can't walk that far either.......!

OMG, I've never taken it out on someone before, it must be those pregnancy hormones again .

What got me even more incensed was I spotted another car with adults in and no kids hogging a parent and toddler space on my way out!

There, rant over feel much better now.

You can get some temporary blue badges, at least my mum did (she was in a car accident with a serious back injury - eventually the blue badge "ran out" and she had to reapply and failed).

I think it's a shame that blue badges are also linked to a high level of benefits (I think that's right, yes?) whereas I think there's a case in some instances (when my mum reapplied for instance she was still in quite a lot of pain, but only just passed the walking distance test thing) that someone would really benefit from the blue badge in terms of mobility/parking but don't really need the funding. But then maybe even more people would feel that blue badges were too "easy"

Actually, I think that parent/toddler spaces should be just as protected as disabled spaces. It's ridiculous to fight over which is more "valid" - both should have priority, and car parking spaces in general should be made wider so you get less people parking in those bays just so they don't get their car scratched sigh.

See, if I ran the world, life would be so much simpler!!

They're linked to DLA- which is used almost as an official definition of disability (so for example for the purposes of tax credits if your child recieved higher rate DLA care then they are classed as severely disbaled). If you get higher rate DLA mobility then you become entitled to a blue badge automatically I think (don't know becuase we were turned down for mobility and in the process of appeal- so haven't got that far).

I stil say that disabled spaces can in some cases be an absolute necessity whereas mother and toddler are helpful. At least thats how I feel when I'm out and about. If I'm with ds2 and can't get into a mother and toddler case I'm disappointed, if I can't park close to the store or to a safe pavement with ds1 I am absolutely panicking (actually I don't park- I never park where we have to cross a road- it's just not safe to do so). It is very different. I don't know about physical disabilites but I woudl imagine its the same in terms of needing the space in order to access the facilities.

so I guess what I'm saying- and what davros was saying earlier -is that if the mother and toddler spaces are full when I am out and about with my toddler- or my normal pregnancy (so not including misdee- or people with other similar complications) then I can still get out and do the shopping. If however I can't find a suitable parking space when I'm out and about with my ASD son then I can't get out and do the shopping. Actually I'm stuffed because I can't drive off without parking at a place where he's expecting to get out either as it would be meltdown city. There just is a difference in need, and because people don't understand that difference they resent the disabled spaces. Which is a shame.

Sorry Queenie if your feeling a little under seige, and it's a bit off topic, but I have to challenge the general perception that somehow disabled people can't work and arn't allowed a merc! It may well be that this guy is a fraudster, but if we're ever to get equality for disabled people we have to accept that they can be successful too !

Back on the general thread, I have to say that I think the blue badge spaces are more critical than the pregnant/parent & child ones. The space needed to transfer to wheelchair at the side of the car is much greater and pregnancy/toddlerhood is a passing phase, where as mobility problems are often not. But why is there a conflict between the two? In generality we should be lobbying our supermarkets for wider spaces for general use (given cars & people are getting bigger) and more "specially wide" spaces for those who need them - we are meant to be a consumer led society after all.

I think that 'blue badge ' spaces are the most important. I also think that there should be 'frail,elderly' places and well as parent and toddler. Not OAP slots as such. My MIL would be eligable for one of those and she is still fit enpoug to go walking in Nepal and skiing (she wouldn't take a 'slot' anyway). But parking for older OAPs who do need to be close to the shop would be an excellent idea. But not a blanket area for all OAPs.

JimJams, with respect, you are now guilty of doing what parents of non-special needs children are often accused of here (commenting on something you don't have experience of). You may well have done the 9 months pregnant bit twice but you haven't done MY 9 months pregnant bit twice. I wasn't making a comment on whether pregnancy/toddlerhood is as difficult as you coping with your AS son or any other "stranger" I do not know. I was commenting that MY mobility in late pregnancy was as difficult as MY bluebadge holding 93yo grandmother's.

I was trying to make the point that it's not just black and white. Yes, ALL spaces should be wider. ALL spaces should be lift accessible. Of course it cuts down on the number of spaces and therefore the revenue from parking fees which is, of course, why we'll never get them. Sigh. Anyway, I'll say no more and leave you to it.

And back on the main subject, I challenged an apparently single man in a P&T spot in Tescos yesterday. Imagine my surprise when he genuinely did meet his partner and baby inside the supermarket. Gulp!

Ok fair enough. I have already said that I eblieve temporary blue badges would be a good thing (are a good thing as they sem to exist), but in general the necessity is different. Can I just clarify one thing- in case anyone thinks I am on the make when reading this thread. My son doesn't have AS - if he did I doubt very much that I would need access to spaces close to the shops (although someone with an AS child feel free to correct me). He is much further along the spectrum.

Soupdragon - lol! bet you wished the ground would swallow you up.

I agree with soupdragon here. I am just over 6 months pg with a toddler and although I don't feel that I need a parking space near to the shops if I do not have one that is wider I have a choice of physically not being able to get in and out of the car or going home and not getting my shopping done.

Last time I was pregnant I was only able to shop when dh was with me so that he could reverse the car out first to allow me to get in. I had a normal pregnancy with no complications (actually I think I had undiagnosed spd but never mentioned it to the m/w as I thought it was just one of theose things you had to put up with when pg and didn't realise it was a condition with a name)

I know of several people with severe spd who have been told by their local authority that they do not issue temporary blue badges full stop. Some of these people end up on crutches or in a wheelchair. One woman whose problems continued after her pregnancy is just now getting somewhere after suffering for 3 years

I really don't doubt that there are special circumstances when people are in need of a wide space/close space whatever as your average disabled person. However the problem is that there are a few misconceptions that seem to be common.

The first is that blue badges are easy to get hold of- that has been said on this thread. They're not.

The second misconception is that a mother with a toddler (I'll leave pregnancy out of the general argument as mobility complications and therefore a temproary disability if you like may be reasonably common) has as many difficulties accessing shops etc as someone who is disabled - they don't. Someone who is disabled by thier pregnancy may do, but that is different. I have seen comments on this thread and others about how unfair it is that there are so many disabled spaces compared to mums and toddlers. The need is simply not the same. As someone has already said - if there are not enough mums and toddler spaces that is one thing, but leave the disabled out of it.

The third misconception is that disabled people are somehow claiming loads of help etc and that the help they get is "unfair". Recently the council tried to introduce parking charges for disabled people. Many people wrote into the local paper with the attitude "well why shouldn't they pay I have to" blah blah blah. The reason is that some disabled people (not all) but some- in order to get access to shops and services - may have to park in 5 different spaces when an able bodies person would have to park in one.

A good thread to read at the moment is the one on this section about what disability means, and whether changes can be made in society to reduce levels of disability.

Actually I don't really know why I'm bothering to argue about this. I don't even have a sodding blue badge

If anyone has any ideas how to explain to a 4 year old without much language that he is too heavy and big to get into a trolley please let me know. That is as much of a nightmare as parking at the mo (no progress at all for those who have offered help on this before- choc buttons didn't work as I can't juggle ds2 at the same time). I'm stumped. Help!

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Jimjams, would he use the trollies for disabled children? They are bigger he could easily fit into one.

He would Lou- but I have ds2 (22 months) as well- and the ones I've seen are only for one child.

I guess I'm asking how to break a routine in public, and I don't think it can be done! At home I can ignore the screaming and hitting himself but I can't out and about. Also he drops to the floor and then I can't physically move him and the trolley. I've thought about taking him by himself but I can only do that at the weekend when the chekout queues are too long for him. All I can think of is dragging him further and further each time until one day he magically accepts not getting in the trolley. he will walk- but not until we get to the fruit and veg aisle- he has to get in the trolley to go into the shop.

I realise that I am telling my granny how to suck eggs, but I saw this looking at some PECS sites Jimjams.

www.usevisualstrategies.com/success/leesa.htm

I was looking for the sister of a friend who has a son with AS. She had already set up PECS without knowing about the system.....proof (if needed) that parents know what their kids needs best!

Thanks for that hmb- I was thinking of doing a pecs list (but I am so unorganised- I really shouldn't be the mother of an autistic child). I sound so negative but I know he'll just demand to get in the trolley until the fruit and veg aisle and it is killing my back.

The only idea I had was to try and break the habit in Safeway where we don't go very often- and so the trolley habit isn't as well established there. But then whether he would generalise that to Sainsburys or Tesco I don't know. It's really hard to break the Tesco habit as its right next to school so a)he's often in uniform so looks particularly NT iyswim, and b) too many people I know!

Thanks for that link though - it is a good idea. I might manage to do all my shopping then (but what happens if an item is out of stock- oh hell).

Hadn't thought of that one! Aspies would rock at inventory checks and stock managment systems!

Friend's sister has had a Dx for son of AS at 7. Doctor is very supportive, as is the school. What PECS sites would you suggest, other than the most obvious?

Oh dear, I disappeared for a couple of days and left Jimjams holding OUR fort! Maybe I should just leave it alone but...... IMHO I still think that being pregnant and having kids is a lifestyle choice whereas being disabled, old or sick are not. Having a condition or illness during pregnancy is different. I've just been pregnant while suffering from a long term serious illness which unfortunately meant going out MORE for extra scans, check ups etc Having had that experience it doesn't compare to my experience of caring for a disabled child. When I'm out with my son I NEED a blue badge, I can't manage without it, not because of the baby or my health but solely because of my son's difficulties. Even if you think we're "lucky" to get DLA and a badge, god knows we get few "perks" in our lives due to dealing with disability so its a shame to have to justify what is, after all, our right. My 84 yr old MIL had a blue badge related to Attendance Allowance (not DLA), in my job on a research project related to terminally ill cancer patients they all got blue badges under special measures applied for by their Palliative Care nurse and my BIL who had a stroke last year got one immediately through his DN. So there are lots of ways to get blue badges, not necesarily due to what is usually considered "disability". Even so, its not always easy when the issue is illness as described by the MNer whose DH has a heart condition, I think he should get DLA and it stinks! Everyone has to reapply after the time set which seems to vary according to what sort of mood the person dealing with it was in on that day, can't see any other sense to it. SOmetimes it just means confirming that the circumstanes have not changed, other times it means filling in a whole new set of forms. If people knew the agony and true heartbreak parents of disabled children have to suffer to complete DLA forms and go through the claim process they would be shocked.

Thanks Davros- I felt a bit cornered

Really really really have to do the DLA form. yuck yuck yuck.

just do them jimjams!! u keep putting it off.

thanks davros, i think my dh should get DLA (obviously), but the govt dont deem his condtion serious enough to be affecting his day to day life. he collaspes some mornings, has dizzy spells, palpations, was hospitalised twice last year (nothing this year, but then he has avoided most colds going around) takes minimum 10pills a day, has a medic alert necklace, suffers leg cramps due to medication, plus loads of little niggly things, and incapicity benefit sent him for assessment earlier this year, said he cant work for minimum of 2 years, yet still cant get DLA. they are currently looking at his 3rd application again. he doesnt hold out much hope tbh. his specialist has put on each form ,that heart transplanmt is a real possibility. hate the forms, hate the waiting for the outcome.

Misdee- that's awful. Just DON"T ring the "helpline" you'll end up wanting to puch them. Of course he should get DLA - ridiculous.

It took a spinal patient (in a wheelchair) that I met recently 8 years (!!!) to get mobility.

Misdee, I agree that's awful. He really should get it. Have you ever got to tribunal stage? You must have I suppose.

he went to appeal in june. first application was last sutumn, then he reapllied in jan, got to appeal they still refused it. reapplied in sept this year, turn it down again, but he asked for it to be looked at again, so is just waiting for that desicision now.

I sat in Sainsburys yesterday and gave the evil eye to a woman loading her car in a parent and toddler space despite her having no kids. I was too cowardly to say anything in case she punched me on the nose but I hope I made her feel uncomfortable while I waited and revved my engine.

I wiah there was a separate parking area with an attendant at supermarkets who could check if you had young children with you as you drove in!

jimjams - I'm sure one of my local supermarkets (Sainsbury's maybe) has a trolley with a large padded seat at the front and the usual kiddies seat at the handle end. If you asked at the shop they might be able to get one in for you. Presumably your two are too big for the usual "twin" kiddie seats? My two are 4 and 2 and fit no problem although admittedly the 4-year old is not big for this age.