long term breastfeeding - anyone doing it?

[Rivi]

Is anyone out there a long term breastfeeder? If you are how long? how's it going? etc etc

Winnie, I guess your GP's unhelpful response is coloured by the fact that so much medication has never been assessed scientifically for its safety for breastfeeding mums. They probably just cannot be bothered, much easier to just say in a cavalier fashion, pack it in then.
It made me cry (and then laugh later) last year when my incredibly horrible woman GP reacted with horror when I asked for breast-feeding-friendly antibiotics for tonsillitis, having told her he was 18 months old. She bellowed "For God's sake! Time to wean him, don't you think!". Well, I spent 10 days in hospital trying to b/f a newborn while in receipt of powerful opiates and Sellafield-strength antibiotics, and no-one suggested it was unsafe for him then.
I also didn't wean him. At 2.5 he still has a first thing in the morning quick feed which we both enjoy. No-one at all (except for all of Mumsnet, and dh) knows about this. I was at an otherwise very jolly NCT group reunion at the weekend and two of the mums described a mutual friend who still feeds her 3 year old daughter with giggly disgust. I just sat there, purple-faced and feeling like a freak. No wonder we all keep quiet about it.
You stick with it Rivi, if you feel it's right for you. And thanks for that incredible information about tandem feeding, Eulalia. Yet again you have managed to produce some reassuring and helpful feedback.

It makes me sad that outsiders are so negative about long term feeding. It's not exactly any skin off their nose (or nipple!) is it? Feeding my challenging two yr old was a really great way of calming her down and having some intimate time together.

Winnie, as regards the drugs you require, you could contact an NCT breastfeeding counsellor for information about which drugs are safe to take while bfing. You can call them on 0870 444 8708 between 8am and 10pm.

Hope you start to feel better soon.

Isnt it funny how nobody comments about a child still having a bottle at 2 or even 3 but breastfeeding for that long is still a big no no, some people have funny ideas.

Winnie, I would suggest that you do stick to alternative therapies if you can.
Could your "problem" (notice the "") be partly weather related (lack of sun ?).
You do not say what kind of recurring illness you suffer from so it is a bit difficult to help (I understand that it is a very personal question).
DH is a life-force-healer and he specialises in recurring ilnesses but I am afraid he doesn't work over the net. Can you give us a bit more information ?

You're right, Joe1. There's probably a hidden army of secret long term breastfeeders out there. A person I know was told she shouldn't be feeding her baby any longer because he now wears shoes. Bizarre reasoning or what??

www.netdoctor.co.uk is a good site for looking up information on different drugs and if you can get hold of a British National Formulary in your library it will say if a drug is contra-indicated in pregnancy. There may be drugs that don't pass the placenta but do go into milk but it doesn't seem very likely. Unfortunately if you have multiple health problems the choice of drugs may be quite limited.

If the problem is just high blood pressure have you tried any of the massage based therapies? Stroking a pet and/or swimming is supposed to help. If a specific drug has been suggested I can possibly find information on the net.

Joe 1 - just to pick up on your request for suggestions for ds's weaning and how to get over the hurdle of geting him to sleep without the breast...
My dd, 14 months old, generally has feeds twice a day, first thing in the morning and then again in the evening. She used to fall asleep at the breast in the evening - a fairly handy way of getting her off to sleep - but of course it meant she was kind of reliant upon me to get her to sleep, and it made life difficult for dh if I wasn't there at bedtime.
So now, I'm still giving dd her evening feed, but its now earlier so that its not part of the 'time to go to sleep' routine. She's adjusted well to this, and she has learnt to get herself to sleep (without a dummy). I have NO INTENTION of giving up breast feeding in the near future (and proud of it), but if I did want to, I (we) wouldn't have the combined issues of 1) giving up this intimate / bonding experience and 2) screaming dd unable to go to sleep. So my recommendation would be to gradually bring ds's last feed of the day earlier and earlier, to disassociate the breastfeeding from sleep. This should hopefully make giving up breastfeeding much easier and less stressful for both of you.

I hope you feel better soon, Winnie.

Am I glad I started this topic - what a lot of responses and all because I have been thinking am I alien or something... I breastfed our ds til he was 2.6 months and was the only one who seemed to be doing it and now it's the same again with our 16 month old dd who shows no signs of giving up and in fact during the last few months feeds even more but once again although I am very discreet I feel the looks etc etc when the others get the bottle or the juice out and I have to find a seat while dd feeds. I wont give it up til she wants to I hope but people I know (and hardly know), have said very negative things about the fact that I am still breastfeeding. Anyway, I have only had chance to quickly read some replies hope to read the replies properly by the weekend.

Thanks Anibani, I will start trying that. I must say that when he is ready for sleep he doesnt really have a feed, just comfort for a couple of minutes then off to sleep. The main obstacle I am going to have is when he is thristy. More often than not he will have plenty to drink from his cup but still want milk but only when we are home. I am getting a sleeping bag for him so hopefully he will then sleep through the night and we can stop the middle of the night feed/comfort feed.

Winnie - as Marina says GP's tend to cover themselves. It is a lot easier for them to say give up rather than get irate mothers claiming that some medication is affecting their child. At only 2 breastfeeds a day your son is only going to get a miniscule amount of medication. However there are contraindications obviously for breastfeeding but these tend to relate medications such as for cancer treatment for example.

The following should be of help (written by a doctor)

You Can Still Breastfeed

Over the years, many, many, many women have been wrongly told to stop breastfeeding. The decision about continuing breastfeeding when the mother must take a drug, for example, involves more than consideration of whether the medication appears in the mother's milk. It also involves taking into consideration the risks of formula feeding for the baby, which are substantial, the risks of not breastfeeding for the mother, which are substantial, and other issues as well. For example, feeding a breastfeeding baby by bottle for the time the mother is on medication (rarely less than 5 days), will very often result in the baby refusing the breast forever or at least becoming very difficult on the breast. On the other hand, it should be taken into consideration that some babies just will not take bottles, so the advice to stop is not only usually wrong, but impractical as well. Furthermore, it is easy to advise the mother to pump her milk when she is not feeding the baby, but adequate pumping is often very difficult to do for some mothers, with the result that the mothers may become very painfully engorged, which may further lead to serious complications.

Breastfeeding and Maternal Medication

Most drugs appear in the milk, but only in very tiny amounts. Although a very few drugs may still cause problems for infants even in tiny doses, this is not the case for the vast majority. Mothers who are told they must stop breastfeeding because of a certain drug should ask to be prescribed an alternative medication which is acceptable for breastfeeding mothers. In this day and age, it is rarely a problem to find such an alternative. If the prescribing physician does not know how to proceed, s/he should get more information. If the prescribing physician is not flexible, the mother should seek another opinion.

Most drugs may be considered safe for the mother to take and continue breastfeeding if:

1. they are commonly prescribed for infants. Examples are amoxycillin, cloxacillin, most antibiotics.

1. they are considered safe in pregnancy. Drugs enter directly into the baby's bloodstream when used during pregnancy. The baby generally gets much higher doses at a much more sensitive period during pregnancy, than during breastfeeding. This is not an absolute, however, as during pregnancy, the mother's liver and kidneys will get rid of the drug for the baby.

1. they are not absorbed from the stomach or intestines. These include many drugs which are given by injection. Examples are gentamicin, heparin, lidocaine or other local anaesthetics used by dentists.

The following frequently used drugs are also generally safe during breastfeeding: acetaminophen (Tylenol, Tempra), alcohol (in reasonable amounts), aspirin (in usual doses, for short periods), most antiepileptic medications, most antihypertensive medications, tetracycline, codeine, most nonsteroidal antiinflammatory medications, prednisone, thyroxine, propylthiouracil (PTU), warfarin, tricyclic antidepressant medications, sertraline (Zoloft), paroxetine (Paxil), other antidepressants, metronidazole (Flagyl), Nix, Kwellada.

Medications applied to the skin, inhaled or applied to the eyes or nose are almost always safe for breastfeeding.

You can still breastfeeding after general, regional or local anaesthesia. As soon as you are up to it. Medications you might take afterwards for pain are almost always permitted. Immunizations given to the mother do not require her to stop breastfeeding (including with live viruses such as german measles, Hepatitis A and B).

Get reliable information before stopping breastfeeding. Once you have stopped it may be very difficult to restart, especially if the baby is very young.

Breastfeeding and Maternal Illness

Very few maternal illnesses require the mother to stop breastfeeding. This is particularly true of infections. Most infections are caused by viruses. Most infections caused by viruses are most infectious before the mother realizes she is sick. By the time the mother has fever (or cold, runny nose, diarrhea, vomiting, rash etc), she has already passed on the infection to the baby. However, breastfeeding protects the baby against infection, and the mother should thus continue breastfeeding, in order to protect the baby. If the baby does get sick, he usually is less sick than if breastfeeding had stopped. But often mothers are pleasantly surprised that their babies do not get sick at all. The baby was protected by his mother's continuing breastfeeding.

The only exception to the above is HIV infection in the mother. Until we have more information, it is considered safer for the baby that the mother who is HIV positive not breastfeed, at least where the risks of bottle feeding are acceptable. There are situations, however, even in Canada, where the risk of not breastfeeding is elevated enough that the mother who is HIV positive should nevertheless breastfeed her baby. The final word is not in, however.

Most other maternal illnesses raise questions because of the drugs the mother might have to take. These should rarely be a problem (see above).

X-rays and scans: Ordinary X-rays do not require a mother to stop breastfeeding even when used with contrast (e.g. IVP). A CT scan, MRI scan, even when used with contrast do not require a mother to stop. A radioactive scan (e.g. lung scan, bone scan) does not require a mother to stop. The only exception is a thyroid scan. However, most of the time the scan does not have to be done. See below.

A not uncommon problem in the early months after delivery is a condition called postpartum thyroiditis, a temporary derangement in the thyroid gland's function. A useful test to help understand the condition is a thyroid scan. However, the test requires that radioactive iodine be given to the mother and this material must not be given to nursing mothers. The radioactive iodine will be found in the milk for weeks, and concentrated in the baby's thyroid. There are ways of dealing with postpartum thyroiditis without doing this test. The drugs a mother might have to take to treat postpartum thyroiditis are compatible with continued breastfeeding (e.g. propranolol, propylthiouracil)

Breast Problems

Mastitis (breast infection) and breast abscess are not reasons to stop breastfeeding. Although surgery on a lactating breast is more difficult, the surgery does not necessarily become easier if the mother stops breastfeeding, as milk continues to be formed for weeks after stopping breastfeeding.

Mammograms are more difficult to read if the mother is breastfeeding, but can still be useful. Once again, how long must a mother wait for her breast no longer to be considered lactating? Evaluation of a lump can be done by other means besides mammography. Discuss options with your doctor. Let him/her know breastfeeding is important to you. A needle biopsy, for example, can be done of a lump which is of concern.

New Pregnancy

There is no reason that you cannot continue breastfeeding if you become pregnant. There is no evidence that this does any harm to you, to the baby in your womb or to the one who is nursing. If you wish to stop breastfeeding, take your time and wean slowly.

Infant Problems

Breastfeeding rarely needs to be discontinued for infant illness. Through breastfeeding, the mother is able to comfort the sick child, and, at the same time, the child is able to comfort the mother.

1. Diarrhea and vomiting. Intestinal infections are rare in exclusively breastfed babies. (Though loose bowel movements are very common in exclusively breastfed babies). The best treatment for this condition if the baby gets it, is to continue breastfeeding. The baby will get better more quickly on breastmilk. The baby will do well with only breastmilk in the vast majority of situations, and will not require added fluids except in extraordinary cases.

1. Respiratory illnesses. There is a medical myth that milk should not be given to children with respiratory infections. Whether this is true or not for milk, it is definitely not true for breastmilk (and breastfeeding).

1. Jaundice. Exclusively breastfed babies are commonly jaundiced, even until the 3rd month, though generally the yellow colour of the skin is hardly noticeable. Rather than being a problem, this is normal. (There are causes of jaundice which are not normal, but these do not require stopping breastfeeding). If breastfeeding is going well, jaundice does not require the baby to stop breastfeeding. If breastfeeding is not going well, fixing the breastfeeding will improve the jaundice, whereas stopping breastfeeding even for a short time may completely destroy the breastfeeding. Stopping breastfeeding is not the answer. (See handout #7 Breastfeeding and Jaundice).

If the question you have is not discussed above, do not assume that you must stop breastfeeding. Do not stop, and get more information. Mothers have been told they must stop breastfeeding for reasons too inane to discuss.

Handout #9. You Can Still Breastfeed. Revised January 1998
Written by Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC
This page's content (NOT its design) may be copied and distributed without further permission.

nope i only breastfeed for a week and that was to long

Eulalia - Thank you for sharing the 'You can still breastfeed' handout - it makes really interesting and motivating reading. Why oh why is this kind of information not freely available to ALL expectant and new mothers. It seems that our society gives today's mothers so many reasons to give up breastfeeding (medical, going back to work, not the 'done thing' etc etc) and very few reasons to continue. Even my dd's childminder told me (with best intentions) the other week that she thought I should stop breastfeeding dd for a couple of days because she had diarrhea! "NOT TRUE" I wanted to shout, but instead I thanked her for her advice and carried on breastfeeding anyway.
Joe1 - do keep us all posted on how you get on with eliminating the night feed/comfort feed.

You can find more interesting articles at this site - www.promom.org/bf_info/index.htm

Yes I find it strange how the negative aspects of breastfeeding are focussed upon. Women almost seem ashamed to admit that they enjoy it or they tend to keep quiet in case they induce defensiveness in those who don't breastfeed (who are of course half the population of mothers). Also it seems that even before women start breastfeeding they have a fixed idea of when to stop. It is just viewed as something that is done for as short a time as possible and often 'suffered' for the sake of the child.

The idea that your child is comfort feeding is also viewed with horror as if you are somehow spoiling your child or letting him/her have one over on you. Yet producing dummies, comfort blankets, sweeties etc are all regarded as normal and which incidentally many appear not to notice or ignore all have negative side effects.

Breastfeeding as prevention against illness I don't think is emphasised nearly enough in health literature or just the media in general. I received my Tesco Toddler Magazine which listed various means of dealing with ailments and of course didn't mention breastfeeding (well why should it - no-one does it?) yet why should all those good antibodies suddenly stop working at age 6 months .... 1 year or whenever people decide to stop breastfeeding. We regard vomitting/diarrohea, ear infections and the like as being 'normal' childhood ailments, yet it doesn't have to be like that.

It is of course illegal for formula/baby food companies to overtly promote their products over and above breastfeeding but I still feel the message seeps in that somehow breastmilk is only good enough for a short period of time and that babies need constantly supplemented with extra milk and eventually given 'proper' solid food. Giving breastmilk will mean they lose their appetite for all those 'good' foods, particularly the ones in jars (many of which are full of modified starch).

There are many myths around - such as breastfeeding will tire you. Once when my baby wasn't eating with a minor illness (he refused even things like yoghurt) I just continued to breastfeed and he ate virtually nothing for 6 days. He was 18 months at the time and I fed him quite successfully with no ill effect to myself.

Many women give up because of pressure from partners and more surprisingly from their mothers/mother-in-law's. It is a shame that so many of us have to hide it, as if we are doing something wrong.

If all goes according to plan with No. 2, I certainly intend to breastfeed to beyond the age of 2 this time, at least in the evenings. I gave up with No. 1 at 14 months and have since regretted it. I shall certainly be keeping it quiet though - the reaction to b/feeding a 12 month old was bad enough!!.

I always get the comment 'it must hurt now he has teeth', I didnt realise that babies suck with their teeth.

home//clara.net/abm is the Association of Breastfeeding Mothers website and the also have a 24 hours helpline and you can get answers via email. I found them really helpful once.

Joe1 a friend of mine breastfed her dd while expecting twins she said in the end her tummy might have helped her dd to gradually wean herself . My ds weaned himself before dd was on the way and then when dd started feeding he played about with the idea but decided it wasn't half as nice as all the other drinks he could choose when he tasted the breastmilk once.

Saranka, 4 years wow you must tell the ABM see their website I know they would be very interested as they do have some very long term breastfeeding mums but not many. My HV once said have you ever seen a child at school asking for breastmilk but I wonder especially when school can often be tiring and new and etc etc but then maybe they become so busy and into a very different routine that they quickly wean themselves off after starting school. I don't know but you could ask ABM if they have anyone with experience past 4.

Winnie and Qd I would especially recommend the ABM people to you and hope they can help as I said they have a 24 hour helpline and are really really helpful.

Anibani thanks for that tip re sleep and breastfeeding becoming disassociated, I will certainly start trying this from tonight as the nights are still disruptive because of breastfeeds. Sometimes it is the once thing about breastfeeds that I don't like but I tell myself they are only small for such a short time. I count myself fortunate that the children fed so well and easily.

One thing is I tried using a breastpump to allow me to get out in the evenings but my ds wouldn't drink from a bottle so I never went through all the sterilising fuss with our dd but now I do feel very tied down in the evenings and nights still it was my choice and like I tell the housework they are only small for a short time so I am making the most of it.

Okapi you are so right, nature is truly amazing in ways I never realised until having children... Just wish... no I don't!

Thanks everyone for your advise and comments. Haven't time to read properly at the moment let alone reply but will get back to you all. Winnie x

Bells2, I 've thought the exact same myself (not that No. 2 will be iminent in the slightest!) But I always felt that the 12 months I fed my daughter for was to short and I've regretted giving up too. That said she seemed just to wean herself without me being able to do much about it, but we all know that it would've be possible to carry on had I have encouraged it more, perhaps settling for one feed before bed (although with dd this wasn't the last to go - strange!) So I have high hopes for no.2, I'll let you know how I get on when I'm expecting again in say....ohh, 10 yrs or so!

Joe - It really bugged me when people used to say the teeth thing to me too, grrr....

Marina, I've had to sit with a gaggle of mothers (is that the right terminology, eek?! But its the best way to describe this particular bunch, believe me) listening to them slating a woman who was still breastfeeding her 3 yr old. I really wanted to tell them that my Mum fed my sister for a good 3 yrs to let them know that it wasn't just a one-off, freak of nature occurance and to see their reaction to me. But of course I just sat there seething instead and had a good old argument with them in my head on the way home! Most of them had breastfed for a year anyhow, so how can they draw these limits for others?

Saranka, My health visitor was telling me how she had known mothers who had gone into school at lunchtime just to feed their 5 yr olds, so it IS possible...

Bron, dont be sad I am hoping that my son decides to stop on his own and I dont have to stop things for him, I wont be happy if I have to do that.

This thread's really interesting - but I've not read it in full yet so apologies if I'm repeating what anyone else has said. I'm still breastfeeding my 23 month old daughter mainly just before bed and sometimes through the night. I was talking to a friend the other week (hi-ya Lizzer!) after dd had gone for three days without a feed from me and I was quite worried that that was it as far as breastfeeding went. It was partly because we'd been quite busy and I work late so she had been asleep when I got home but mainly because she wasn't asking for it. Anyway that night she came for a cuddle and asked for some milk and now it's quite common that she'll go for a couple of days without wanting any milk but then will want a really long feed.

What really bugs me is that people who were really pro-breastfeeding at first have, since dd was about 12 months, been going on about how I should have stopped by now. Grrrr. Even my partner thinks I should put a stop to it now! Someone on here mentioned b/fing in public which I can relate to. I never had a problem with b/fing in public (trains,buses,cafes,my grandda's ex-servicemen's club) but now I don't think I could do it - although sometimes she asks for it but is always happy to have water instead. I'm also reluctant to admit to people that I'm still b/fing and if I do mention it I always try to justify it (eg "I never intended to feed her for this long.." er...why do I feel the need to do this?).

Does anyone else's child try to breasfeed their toys? Sometimes dd will bring me a doll or soft toy and ask me to give it some milk but sometimes she'll cuddle them and then put them under her top and say "that's nice" and make drinking noises. Does anyone know if this is common behaviour?

Saranka,
I finally stopped feeding my dd's c. 3 months ago, aged 4 and 3 months. We'd had discussions, and aged 3 they said they would stop when they were 4, when they became 4 they decided they would stop at 5. On one occasion they suggested 27!! I can just imagine myself, a wizened toothless old lady breastfeeding. Eventually I decided to reinforce what was happening gradually anyway. From about two it was just a feed at night, occasionally in the night or in the morning. I then stopped any feeds during the night, except when they were sick, and refusing to drink... it was jolly reassuring then to knoew that if all else failed they would still accept a feed. From 3ish it was just a feed at bed time. Quite often one or both would go several days, if we were away or I went out. Towards the end it was obvious that really it was just comfort and habit...one would literally 'feed' for 20 or 30 seconds. So the cuddles and closeness continued, but I gently distracted them from feeding. Partly because I felt they might be teased if they mentioned it at school.
Bexi, from quite young they used to 'breast feed' their dolls, and still do occasionally.

Bexi - it sounds like your daughter is gradually weaning herself anyway. Often it stretches to several days then maybe just once a week and then stops completely. If anyone puts pressure on you then tell them this. No-one can really complain about something that is happening so infrequently. It is much, much better for the child to wean herself if this is possible so you are lucky to have it so easy.

However if the child is not so keen to give up at age 2ish you can start to put restrictions on breastfeeding as they can understand the concept of waiting till later. Also they should understand that breastfeeding in public is not socially acceptable much the same way that many other things are. I find that some of the feeding is boredom and a child can be distracted. Feeding a toddler is not the same as a baby and you know yourself what is best to do.

Faith - do you have twins - not sure what you meant by dd's?

Bron - peanut butter? Why haven't you eaten this? I eat everything.

Eulalia, yep, twin girls. Currently driving me demented... a surplus of energy, have come in from the garden insisting they are 'freezing', and now wrecking the house!