How would you deal with it?

[SofiaAmes]

We were at a farm to day and while I was distracted with dd, dh was looking after ds (almost 3). Next thing I know, ds is sobbing hysterically and dh is furious. It seems that another child pushed ds over (hard enough to hurt him) because he didn't want ds to play with the puzzle exhibit he was playing with (it's an oversized thing normally played with by 2 or 3 children at a time). This child's parents were there watching him and after he pushed ds over and dh scooped him up, they glared at dh and flanked their child in such a way that no one could come anywhere near this puzzle exhibit. Not a word of apology was given to dh or ds. Dh wanted to go up to them and give them a piece of his mind. I managed to convince him not to. Later I saw the parents with this child and he actually seemed to have some problems (autistic maybe?). Dh's reasoning was that regardless of the child's problems, they should have apologized to ds. I agree with him, but wouldn't go so far as to confront a stranger with their rudeness. Dh thinks that I should have let him say something and thinks that by not confronting those parents I am "letting" ds be bullied.

This is just another example of... things you wish you had known before you had children! I have come across various examples of parents and just plain adults behaving badly in from of our young children and at times just when I have told them not to do something an adult has come along and done/allowed their child to do it. The world is unfair and frustrating at times and I suppose in the end that's what children grow up learning.

Actually batters I laughed out loud when I read your message as I thought "oh god I must have been really droning on" It reminded me of the children at ds1's nursery who when asked the rules say the normal ones (no pushing, quiet voice etc) and then add "some children find it difficult to talk so we must be patient at register time and wait for them to get their pecs cards"

bless

hey you forgot circumcision

wow, I wasn't expecting to start an argument. I'm really not worried about my ds being traumatised for life by being pushed over occasionally by another child. (I'm sure my draconian rules about sweets and tv will are far more traumatic). I just needed a bit of a reality check to make sure that an apology should have been given, and when one wasn't, that it wasn't the absolute height of rudeness. I view a young child pushing over another child in the playground at about the level of somone rushing for a train and elbowing me in the process...it's a little rude, but hardly the crime of the century. Thanks jimjams....it's always useful to have your insight into things. My life is hard enough with 2 children that aren't autistic, I can't imagine what it must be like for you. And since I don't always have a good day everyday, I'm totally ready to assume that maybe someone else could be having a bad day too.

Ooh, interesting thread I've only just found! In that situation, being the parent of an autistic child, I would probably say something to my son, even though he wouldn't understand, just because its expected socially, and to the other child. I probably would have said something to the parents too. What's worse though, that I've had a couple of times, is when I've explained to the parent(s) as nicely as possible, most people are very nice when you do this, but there are a few who have then asked me to apologise too! I really find this hard as its bad enough shrugging and smiling and saying "he doesn't understand, he's autistic" but then to be expected to apologise, not for the specific incident but for his "bad behaviour, lack of manners" generally ....!
Not that I'm saying this is what Sofiames did, I've rather diverted into a nice mini rant

Aside from the thread, I feel badly that we lost LilysMum, I felt the same way earlier today. I wonder how we could exchange information in a more gentle way? Obviously LilysMum just wanted to be heard and felt drowned out.

Berluddy hell davros- what do you do then? I have to prepare myself in advance for this as I have no stock answers and I suspect I would see red.

Agree when you do say it the majority of people are generally very nice- had an example like that in the park this week.

It does occur to me that dh wouldn't say anything as he hates to use the A word (tends to say something stupid like "oh he doesn't talk much" as if he has a choice- drives me insane and I'm always having a go at him about it "it's none of their bloody business" "yes but if you don't exaplain then they wonder what is going on" Now I'm fairly bolshy and say it anyway but a dh not accpeting something (it's very very very common) could be some sort of explanation for the rather strange behaviour from the couple if there was something wrong and the kid wasn't just a brat.

Ha ha! At that stage I do get cross and rude back but then do the usual sobbing once I've left the situation. It doesn't happen often, usually people are embarrassed or interested or even have some experience or know someone with ASD. Just to describe what I mean, I was in the local Budgens with my son one day and he got excited by the shelves of crisps and stood in front of a woman who was looking at them, he didn't shove or push her but stood unusually close to her. I caught up with him just after and said (for her benefit) "don't push anyone, there's plenty of room".
Woman: "HE'S VERY RUDE" (like a machine gun)
Me: "er, well no he's autistic and it means......."
Woman: "HE COULD SAY SORRY"
Me: "er, well no he can't talk so he can't......"
WOman: "WELL YOU COULD SAY SORRY THEN"
Me: "you stupid rude cow, don't you realise he HANDICAPPED?" (that word usually shocks people) me with angry face but usual tears once outside

I really really resent having to do all that stuff for other people's benefit though. I do still find myself doing it, but I resent it every time

I was thinking about what I'd say in that sort of situation- and I came up with something similar to you- "what you want me to apologise for my son beng brain damaged". Then I too would go and do the sobbing. So pleased it not just me.

Davros - how utterly shocking. I'm honestly appalled. Your son's behaviour would would probably make me smile not shout - it's hardly a crime to stand near someone is it? I just think,who's the odd one in that little interchange, and it certainly isn't your or your son.

Sunchowder, I am mystified by Lilysmum. I don't think anyone said anything to her at all. She just posted her views and nobody even disagreed with her let alone criticised her - they just posted their own opinions which happened to be different. I couldn't believe she flounced off just because she wasn't agreed with.

LOL @ dinosaur. I do sometimes wonder whether I will end up on a mumsnet thread! And I remember visits to godstone farm (where I know quite a few mumsnetters go) with a shiver.

And sandcastles! The number of times I have had to rugby tackle ds1 to the ground to save someone's creation. Luckily enough the only times he has managed to destroy one the parent's (and children) have been OK about it.

This summer we went to France. The French seem to have a tendency to hang trousers etc from beach umbrellas (I know I hadn't noticed either). For some unthamonable reason ds1 took great offence to this and would charge in and try and take the trousers/skirts/towels down. He managed to demolish 2 umbrellla's - and we had to leave countless beaches to avoid the destruction of more.

And yes you're right sometimes I don't bother saying anything. Like the time the old lady came up and told ds1 off when we were in Tesco for coughing (he had this tourettesy type mini throat clearing cough thing that went on for a couple of weeks) "put your hand over your mouth" Ds1 obviiusly totally blanked her, she looked at me mouth open- about to have a go about his rudeness. I looked at her- thought nope pointless- can't be bothered- so walked off without saying anything. I;m sure that will have earned a "parent's today" discussion later, but tbh I didn't think he'd done anything wrong.

Don't mean to hijackthe lilysmum thing - I read the thread carefully below, as I am a hypersensitive lunatic myselfI believe what happened is this: She feels that children no matter what age they are, have deep feelings and memories (whether the memories are conscious or not). Also, this thread brought up an extremely horrible memory for her in which she did not feel taken care of or "stood up for" by her parents. She was bringing this up as her example when someone said it wasn't an equitable comparision for this situation (remember the durr....really comment she made? - she was upset then as she felt her point was being completely "minimized" by the others on the thread). Clearly she knew that her example was NOT the same as what happened to SofiaAmes other than she felt compelled by her own experience to stand up for Sofia's SON. I am sure that she is compelled to be an advocate for many children and will always be that way until she can "heal" that horrible experience that she had at 13. Unfortunately, I think when she got into the memory of her being beaten up she got into a really sensitive space and I just felt for her, but didn't get involved on the thread at the time. Can you see why she was upset now Aloha, does it make more sense? The reason it looked like an "overreaction" was because her vision was blurred as she seemed to be headlong into her own awful memories.

I feel badly and think she probably has so much to share with us, but she really needed to feel acknowledged and feel safe with her communication.

In response to the thread, my DH avoids confrontation at all costs, so we might have even left the park. It is very difficult to realize and understand other people's positions,what they are going through and why they respond the way that they do. It is complicated enough without something being "done to" your child as we always want to be there protector. So much good, good advice and understanding on this thread for the real issue that Sofia was asking about!!! All of you are very wonderful to share yourselves this way, I am amazed every time I log on and see the posts.

I seem to have a habit of buying books that are relevant to mumsnet discussions just as they finish. Anyway I bought the book "raising a child with autism" by Shira Richman yesterday (thought it might have some trolley strategies- or beach umbrella strategies come to that ). Anyway the last chapter is about venturing out into the community with a section on how to deal with the inevitable comments. I thought that this paragraph was very insightful though:

"Understand that your response to another community member will probably not give him or her enough insight into the struggle that you and your child with autism face every day. Go out prepared to deal with other community members. Responses that are simple and explanations that state facts are more easily understood. Remember though that your response is not for thier emotional benefit, but yours.

Thought that last line was great. It then goes onto say that if you don't want to repond then don't, and that can be an appropriate course of action.

Great quote Jimjams, I'm goint to print it out and memorise it to say over and over to myself

Yes although sometimes I think it would benefit my emotions more to say "f off you stupid miserable cow- can't you see he's f* autistic?" or words to that effect. Do you think that's a simple explantion that states facts

Urgh! Top tip - if you want to print something from Mumsnet, even if you highligh only the bit you want it will print out the WHOLE thread! Best to cut and paste it into Word or something. Sorry everyone, I have just chucked most of you in the recycling

When ds was 3 and a bit (pre-diagnosis) I was always apologising for him. We went to an Under 5's group and he was regularly getting into spats with 2 year olds. He found them totally incomphrensible. I didn't usually see the begining but always assumed it was him because he was bigger. Turns out it was mostly the other way round. I found out because I started asking people to keep an eye out and the mums were very good about it (otherwise I would have stopping going to the group).

Out in public though I tended to keep him away and fortunatley nothing awful happened. However I do tell people now as he does tend to get over-excitable and if I feel it is impinging upon other people or more usually their children I do feel an explanation is needed. eg recently at the swimming pool ds was splashing so much he was upsetting some of the other children so they just moved away from him. So yes I think he is autistic and it is no-ones business but if it is directly affecting what they are doing then I have to explain or move him away (or often more easily ask them to move their children away).

I just remembered about ds at this group when someone came in with a new baby in a carseat about a year ago. ds likes babies but on this ocasion he made a grab for the handle and tipped the thing right over. I ran over but he wouldn't let go and was screaming. It looked so awful and I didn't even know the problem with him then so couldn't explain. The mum was really ok though and the baby was strapped in so was fine.