Isolated only child- could moving help?

[TempsPerdu]

Hello wise people of Mumsnet. I posted on here last year about my 5-year-old daughter not really settling at school, but now things have come to a bit of a head and we need to make a decision.

We currently live in a busy London suburb. We are well integrated into the community as in DP and I have plenty of friends, but this hasn’t translated into DD having friends. There are no local cousins (only one overseas), close school/uni friends had their DC much earlier so they’re all now teens, and local friends and neighbours have mostly boys. Basically, we have a social network here but DD doesn’t. This evening, for example, I’m facing a choice of taking DD out trick or treating on her own, or in a pack of about half a dozen boys her own age who will all ignore her; there are no similarly aged girls that we know well enough to hook up with.

DD started school last year and that has become another issue. The school itself is good, but she’s ended up in a class of very girly girls who she hasn’t really bonded with - DD is into science and football and Pokémon while (without exception at the moment) the other girls are into princesses and unicorns. The ability range is also weirdly skewed so that other than DD the higher attaining and more motivated children are all boys, and she is working mainly with them. At play times she is currently playing mainly with much older girls (Year 4 upwards) rather than her peers, as they have so little common ground.

It all feels very isolated, and I worry about the future. Every time I read an only child thread, multiple people advise organising play dates and sleepovers and taking friends on holidays - we are totally open to this and when opting to have just the one child we naively thought this is what would happen. But circumstances have dictated otherwise; since the pandemic we’ve noticed people increasingly retreating into their families, and living in London people lead very fast-paced and stressful lives with little time for casual socialising.

We have wondered for a while whether moving to somewhere less busy and pressurised might help DD to make more settled friendships. We have a market town in mind, just outside of a smaller city. We know that it isn’t a utopia, but there seems to be more community engagement, a slightly slower pace of life, there’s only one secondary school so everyone goes there (as opposed to here, where secondary schooling is quite competitive and fragmented), it’s safer so children wouldn’t be ferried around by car so much etc. We just want a more relaxed lifestyle, where DD gets to make the close friendships that she’s going to need in the future.

Does anyone have any advice on this? Has anyone been in a similar boat? How have parents of only children managed to forge a social network in the absence of extended family? Any input massively appreciated, as we are feeling increasingly unsettled about all this.

Is your daughter happy? It sounds like a lot of the worry is from your end. Is it possibly that you have a perception of how her childhood should be, but that she’s actually not unhappy? I was a happy child but always enjoyed playing alone and reading, it’s not done me any harm. I personally would caution against uprooting your family - it’s hard to move and it’s really disruptive.

I hope that the replies on this thread have shown you that your daughter’s issues whatever they may or may not be are unlikely to be because she is an only child. By focussing on that one factor you are unwittingly perpetuating the myth that only children are somehow at a social disadvantage which I don’t think is the case at all.

That sounds lovely@XelaM. I used to ride a bit as a child and did love it. Not sure our finances could stretch to regular riding for DD (I looked into getting some refresher lessons for me a while back and, my goodness, the prices nowadays!) but I will definitely investigate again. We may be academic and cerebral but unfortunately we’re not especially rich! 🙂

That sounds really tough OP. I'm also the parent of an only child and we do very similar things with him. We're also in London and I'm primary school teacher. Your daughters school sounds so different to where DS goes and to the one I teach in. There is lots of mixing between boys and girls and a whole host of different interests. I don't think your daughter would feel out of place at all. I'm not sure that moving out of London would make things better unless you went somewhere like Bath or Bristol. Is there any possibility of moving schools?

Have a look at moving out of London. It sounds really cliquey where you are. Find somewhere they get to walk to and from school & go to the park so natural friendships occur. Milton under Wychwood in Oxfordshire lovely primary & great Senior Option Burford which has an international state boarding section which breaks up the demographic. There’s also one of the cheapest prep schools in the country Windrush Valley but Wychwood Primary has lots going for it. Make the move sooner rather than later as your instinct on this is already making you question it.

@WinterWeightlossGoal You are completely right, of course, and I am a massive hypocrite, as I’ve been on many an only child thread in the past extolling the virtues of one-child families. And there are undoubtedly plenty of virtues.

BUT… There are some potential pitfalls too. I’m not an only child myself, but DP and I both have very small families (his parents are both only children so no aunts/uncles/cousins on his side, and my cousins are decades older so we never spent time together as kids). Growing up it did all feel a bit dull and sterile - tiny, quiet Christmases, no other kids at family gatherings - and now we’re adults with our own child we do feel pressure to be ‘fun parents’ all the time, filling every weekend and holiday with activities in the absence of family to visit, and somehow making Christmases with just us and two sets of very elderly grandparents feel enjoyable for DD. It has undoubtedly influenced the importance I place on DD’s friendships, as she is going to need a find a social network somewhere - she won’t have a ready made family one.

And I know, statistically, the number of one-child families is probably on the up, but it’s so far from being the norm where we are that we do feel like we’re swimming against a very strong tide. Every other child we know seems to spend weekends and holidays running around in a pack of siblings and cousins (aside from the only child thing, I wonder where all the hidden introverts among them are, who won’t be enjoying this at all!)

@avocadotofu Yes, you think ‘London’ and you think ‘liberal and progressive’, but honestly I think rural Norfolk is probably more progressive than where we are in some ways! It’s weird how you get these little enclaves in London, with completely different characters. Actually if it weren’t for ageing parents Bath/Bristol would be a good call - I was at uni in the area and loved it. We’d definitely like a university town, and have considered Cambridge. There is potential to move schools, but it would need to be somewhere out of the immediate area, as I suspect our other closest primaries would have a similar vibe to the current one.

I’d also add that I think the lack of only children in our school is probably a symptom of how conformist the school/area is in general - pretty much everyone has two kids because ‘it’s what you do’.

The good thing that stands out to me is that your daughter doesn't sound unhappy, in fact she sounds happy and secure in herself. So it could also just be that she's yet to meet her BFFs, but that it'll come in time when she's ready and meets the right kids. Also I have a child who is a year younger and notice how fickle their friendships seem to be at this age. There aren't many people who made their life long friends age 5. Another thing that comes across to me is the area you're in doesn't sounds like an ideal fit for your family and values. Are there any pockets of London close by the are a bit more liberal? Or if you are going to move out of London maybe ensuring it's somewhere that is more aligned with your values and interests. The other alternative others have mentioned is finding another school? No harm in looking around. There can be issues in all schools but the thing that stands out is they don't seem to be dealing with these issues are gender stereotypes and boys dominating sports etc.

I also want to say you just come across as a very caring and thoughtful parent who wants the best for their daughter. There's nothing in your post to suggest you are being snobby as some have implied.

@bassinyerface Thanks for the compliment - I try my best! We’d love to move to a more liberal area of London but sadly those areas tend to be on the pricier side (to put it mildly!) and we just don’t have the budget. Our area is one of the more affordable ones in London - somewhere people move out to because it’s about as cheap as you can get without being completely grotty.

We will definitely be careful if we do opt to leave London - I’m a bit of an obsessive researcher/stats geek so I’ll definitely do my homework!

The school isn’t bad - our nearest one is a bit of a disaster zone and we’re just grateful DD didn’t end up there - but I do think they’re a bit old fashioned and haven’t really yet got a handle on how the local demographic has changed, especially since the pandemic, and what they need to do in response.

Reading between the lines there's several ASD traits here

Very unusual to have no friends as an only child. Children welcome others. I'd look a bit more closely into her behavioiurs eg strong will (mind blindness?) analytical pursuits, even other girls perhaps sensing she is different

Never heard of this before

Just wanted to say that at school I struggled to fit in too, was bullied and didn't make friends till I was 13- 14 (was an only child). Did spend a lot of time with adults and on my hobbies but it didn't affect my life in any way. Also grew up in a big city with working parents and didn't have any cousins close by. But I'm actually glad of it as it made me very self reliant and independent, a trait that's served me well in life - in friendships/relationships/work etc. Made a lot of friends at uni and ever since so school friendships in London don't define you in any way.

As long as she has hobbies and you don't make her feel weird for not having friends, she'll be absolutely fine. Sports is a much much better way for a girl to spend her youth than obsessing over boys anyway.

Can she find any hobby groups or girl sport teams or camps to play with so she can improve, make new friends and not be reliant on the boys being fair to her?

Also unless your daughter chooses to stay in the market town you move to for uni/work, the primary school friends won't necessarily be of much benefit later in life. Of course friends are important but not to the extent of sacrificing all the opportunities she'll have in London. If she likes science, there's just so much more around here to do and as she gets older shes more likely to meet others with similar interests.

There's no point having more community around if she'll face the same problem of other girls not having the same hobbies/interests as her. Smaller towns can be even more cliquey and hard to fit in if you're a little different especially especially as so many of them are full of Londoners moving out anyway.

Scop - that's why I commented about my child because it seemed so familiar. I think the only child thing is a red herring. My child is not an only - I know many who are and I really don't see a difference with regard to sociability. I think it is mostly innate; those who seem different, are different.

It's just something to bear in mind, OP. The diagnostic criteria for asd has widened massively to include those who would previously have been seen as quirky, independent etc etc. I know many ASD kids and they're often the most self assured, confident youngsters out there. Problems occur when they're under pressure to conform to others' expectations of what 'normal' is. That can be a total head fuck. I say this because after my own child's diagnosis, I was also diagnosed. It's like being born again. I'm mourning for the decades I lost trying to be normal but at the same time - wow. I have permission to be myself and it's life changing personally and professionally.

Good luck to you and your daughter, she sounds great. Some people just don't need a lot of friends. One of my other children is a total extrovert, loads of friends, but God he's needy. Much harder to parent and actually much bigger worry.

Hey OP, I think you've had a hard time here. I totally recognise what you're saying! My DD had a best friend who was a boy and in Year 1 he stopped talking to her because she was a girl. She was heartbroken.
However, in year 3 the boys seemed to decide to stop being sexist idiots and they seem to mix a lot more now. I think screens have helped here as they all talk about minecraft and Roblox and play together online at home (a whole other minefield but).

I recommend checking out Weetabix wildcats as you may find a girls football club near you.

Also, get an old phone and install Pokémon Go for her to play. Search your town name plus Pokémon go on Facebook and you'll find a load of adults who play with their kids and you'll be able to meet up and the kids will instantly have stuff to chat about.

Sign her up for days at holiday clubs etc during the holidays (junior adventure group are great if they run near you) so she gets that interaction with other kids.

I don't think you need to move, or worry about siblings, just get googling!

@Challengemonica That’s really interesting to hear, thank you. I’m open minded, and potential ASD is definitely something I’ll be alert to.

I’m curious, though, and this is a genuine question for all those who have been diagnosed with ASD, or who have children who are: I went to a super selective grammar school back in the ‘90s. Around a third to half of the children there, I’d say, displayed a lot of the traits that I see in DD and have been discussed here (quirky/geeky/precocious/hyper verbal/better with adults than their peers). Would they now be diagnosed as autistic? Are autistic traits that strongly correlated with intelligence? A fair few of our middle class friends’ older kids, all very able, present similarly, as do many of of the brightest children I’ve taught in Year 5/6 who ended up heading to grammar schools. Is this kind of high functioning neurodivergence really that prevalent (as this suggests a huge amount of underdiagnosis)? Is it possible to be super intelligent/high IQ and not be neurodivergent?

Just musing really as I find it all v interesting. I mention the class thing only because I notice this ‘type’ of quirky child so much more among my very middle class school/university circle than I do in the less advantaged families we mix with or who I’ve worked with.

One of my children (not the asd one) goes to a selective grammar, and yes, says there are a huge number of ASD kids.

As for this 'type' of child bring more prevalent in middle class families, I wonder if it's because those children are more likely to be given the opportunities to fulfill their interests/ passions. Without those opportunities, I wonder if they would be frustrated/ difficult children as opposed to 'gifted'

It is possible to be super-intelligent without being neurodivergent? Super-intelligence is by default neurodivergent, whether all could be diagnosed with a disorder, who knows. But honestly the more I learn about this myself, the more I resent the 'disorder' label (not discounting those for whom their condition is disabling - it is of course a spectrum) for me, the pressure to conform has been extremely disabling, being neurodiverse in itself, has not. It's a different way of being that can be a pretty wonderful thing. One thing I've noticed about my asd child - her struggles with socialising melt away when she's with other ND kids - they just 'get' each other. So really, the communication problem is as much the neurotypical kids as it is her, they can't relate to her any more than she can to them.

As for kids when we were young, yes I often think back to the ones who were different/ left out. I expect they were mostly ND. I worked very hard all life to be included. It has been my priority to the exclusion of pursuing own interests and abilities. It's been exhausting and such a waste.

My younger brother is the quirky and uber-intelligent/computer type. He got degrees from Cambridge and Harvard in Computer Science plus an electro engineering degree from Queen Mary and never had anything other than a First/Distinction in any of his exams or dissertations/course works. As a child, his main hobby (next to gaming) was speed-cubing, which he taught himself. He could assemble a Rubik's cube in under 1 minute. He's a total anomaly and it could well be that he is somewhere on the spectrum, but he's always had loads of friends who are also all uber-intelligent, which I'm not sure is that common with ASD? I genuinely have no idea though.

Thank you. We were allocated our fourth choice of school, it's pretty bad and our neighbourhood isn't brilliant, so we'd just like to go somewhere where the school gates don't smell of weed and disappointment lol. Feeling out of place is so uncomfortable so I empathise.

Hi OP, the more you post, the more I notice a very odd and old fashioned attitude to class stereotypes. Some points you've noted makes me think you probably are assessing your own situation through a lense of prejudice (possibly because of subconscious bias or general unhappiness with the area)..

others who are smug about having their kids in the ‘local school’ in Hackney or Walthamstow in reality live in gentrified areas where less wealthy people have been forced out so all the kids are the same as theirs anyway

I live in Walthamstow and previously lived in Hackney and can assure you the few middle class, liberal families are far far outnumbered by the 'less wealthy', a very conservative Asian population (I say this as an Asian who finds it more stifling than back in Asia..) and some of the largest/toughest estates in London. If you read school statistics and demographics, your DD would absolutely be in the minority by a large margin. And I see far more mixed sex groups playing in the estate playgrounds than the local park - so class and demographic have nothing to do with conforming to gender roles.

it’s DP who is much more isolated than me as a parent within our current class. This is because he’s a football refusenik, and football culture is so important among most of the other dads.

I mean, Brighton/Muswell Hill/Crouch End/Hackney and all the areas you think are preferable, all have plenty of dads who play/watch and enjoy football or rugby. It isn't restricted to any demographic or 'Tory' area as you call it. I find it hard to believe in zone 5 suburban London there isn't a single bloke who enjoys something not football. And men who like football also have other interests! My friend's DH is an academic who organises a weekly football club and also a weekly board game night - but the only way anyone would know about either is if they made the effort to grab a drink with him instead of immediately writing him off for enjoying football.

I mention the class thing only because I notice this ‘type’ of quirky child so much more among my very middle class school/university circle than I do in the less advantaged families we mix with or who I’ve worked with.

If your views on people are mainly based on uni or teaching kids at school, that's a very narrow view of the world which might explain the odd observations. Post uni the world of work becomes less class focused so if you worked in a large tech company for example you'd see a lot of quirky/ASD programmers who come from a disadvantaged background - obviously brilliant. Google for example hires apprentices straight school from poorer backgrounds who can't afford uni but are talented. Or in the police where a fair few of the best detectives are quirky but have a level of critical thinking that's genius - mostly working class. They were the loners/nerds/introverts in their London state schools. And yes, you can be highly intelligent and NOT on the spectrum. Most of my management consulting firm fit this bracket as people with ASD struggle with the constant change.

As a side note, true intelligence in a child is harder to measure as there's different rates of maturity and growth. There are plenty of kids who like the sciences early doors who get overtaken by their peers who catch them up later on, or who struggle to apply classroom lessons in the real world. Different types of intelligence too - someone may be able to understand a complicated equation, and another will be able to plan a complicated military tactic - they will present differently at school. How you are as a child is not indicative of how you end up. A 5 yr old girl who likes unicorns could well be on a medical school track in secondary school!

Hey OP, I think you've had a hard time here

No she hasn't. She's had lots of thoughtful replies.