Nursery red flag - help!

[Superstorefan123]

Hi all, I would welcome some advice on whether I’m overreacting or these are genuine red flags for nursery. Context child is 15 months.

We put my sons name down during pregnancy on what seemed like a fab forest school. Naively didn’t really think about it again until this week when a few things have come up during settling process which I consider red flags and would love some perspective

• sleep - told the nursery my son struggles to sleep independently and would potentially struggle to settle. He can be held, rocked, prammed, fed to sleep etc but can’t just be laid down to fall asleep. They said bluntly due to staff ratios they can’t rock or cuddle but they would pick him up as a last resort but try other things first. They said they could sit with him initially and pat him if needed. I worry what that means in practice.
• they are constantly promoting via email a well known local sleep trainer and have on their website a lot of info about it being important children learn to self settle - again I recognise this will be in the end goal at nursery that he can just lie down and fall asleep but I am very anti sleep training and I expected some comfort in the beginning at least?
• they said they put all the children in cribs at 12 and have a 2 hour sleep window. They said if my son wasn’t tired they’d give him some toys to play with in the crib - but do you think they mean 2 hours sat in a crib?! He normally only sleeps for 1 hour and I was expecting less at nursery! That’s a long time just to sit!
• they last had an Ofsted in 2018 which had some improvements required. They then ‘shut the nursery’ at some point (not sure when but we viewed in 2023 and operations have never ceased as far as I can tell) but reopened in 2024 under same name (changed childcare to nursery in title) and same location. They have no ofsted now as they are too ‘new’… however surely red flags?? A was of avoiding scrutiny?
• they have no reviews online again because they are ‘new’ but they aren’t?? On their website they say they’ve been running for years!

I of course plan on following up on all of this when we go to settle 2 Monday - I feel I didn’t ask enough questions as I was genuinely shocked about the responses.

Im now terrified of sending him in and unsure what to do - we have parent support as back up but welcome opinions!

Thank you… this is my instinct. I’ll speak to them but if not here starts the scramble for a new place 😭

Because a nursery can't provide a nurturing, responsive environment, whereas a childminder can - if you find the right one. And it seems clear from op's posts that she is looking for somewhere that can respond to her child's cries/needs.

I'm just not sure I agree with that assumption. At our nursery it's 3 kids per adult, and they get cuddles and comfort all day. On my days off I've seen childminders out trying to manage 8+ kids, and the kids just running loose/causing trouble/being ignored. Can't even imagine how napping 8 kids at once could possibly involve rocking or comforting. Just don't think the sweeping statement is fair at all.

Sorry but I think you are being precious and this sounds totally normal.

I think you need to ask more questions about how they respond if he doesn’t settle at nap time and if he wakes up before 2 hours.

stop beating yourself up about responding to the very normal caring instincts you are having as a parent. You are literally looking after a tiny person who only has you and your partner to really look out for them. Your feelings are normal and you’re doing the right thing.

Im not sure not having an ofsted is normal but I take your point on the sleep - never done nursery before so genuinely interested in opinions!

The sleep thing is not the issue. The deceitful behaviour around fiddling with the ofsted results would be an absolute deal breaker. This nursery lacks honesty and integrity and that’s not somewhere I would ever consider leaving my child.

The shutting down and reopening is perfectly normal...in nurseries that know they'll get shut down by force. Unless maybe a new owner? I'd avoid.

The rigid nap time is also a big no. If they can't be flexible they can't do the job of a nursery: To meet a child's needs.

Find a different nursery

my kids were patted to sleep in their nursery until they dropped the nap

and with babies they follow your babies schedule - not theirs

my baby ate breakfast at a different time then the rest for ages because of his nap schedule 😂 and they used to have to do 2 lunch sittings for a while as loads of babies were asleep during their lunch time

the do whatever you want and listen when I ask for a nap to be capped - it my boy sleeps past 3 hel be up super late in the night so they always wake him gently for me just before 3.

I worked in a private nursery and we had normal ratios, the legal ratio we had to have, which that nursery will also have.

We rocked every single baby to sleep.

They should have assured you he would be cared for in the way he needs. I'd not send my child to this nursery. Children you don't care about become very annoying very quickly and people are unpredictable when very annoyed.

The Ofsted sleight of hand is very concerning, and if it genuinely is two hours in a cot, like it or not, that's completely unacceptable. (Two low sleep needs DDs here – pretty sure nursery would have been checking for signs of illness if either of mine ever napped a full two hours.)

Childminders have smaller ratios than nurseries. 3 under 5 and 6 under 8 and usually this will be a range of ages. Only one can be under 12 months. I would never have 3 under 1s as you might in a nursery. If (?) you're seeing cms with 8 children then this will be through a school holiday and they won't all be high needs toddlers will they. At least 2 will be over 8 years/ 3 more at school age.

I will usually have 1 that needs more help to sleep but older ones who can self settle with the view to teaching the baby to do the same so when they are older and the next baby joins, I can help them etc. Like a mini life cycle!

Because childminders can give much more personalised care. Nurseries are by their nature institutions. A childminder provides care in a home.
They can't care for more than three children under 5 so the ratios are not greater.

When they see the other children excited to see their comforter / blanket from home laid out for them in their cot or bed , they usually lie down and are so tired from their morning , they are glad for a little nap .
The routine is exactly the same each day and they get to know what happens next.
The staff will say it's time for nappy change and bedtime and they will quickly settle.
It's normal to be anxious about returning to work and your child being away from you.

Tbf with the Ofsted thing nursery company i work for re registered. Not sure if changed company name or something changed in the company and the nursery was good before so wasnt to hide anything. Also they should come out soon as you get 30 months from then..not saying is the case but not always to hide things..

The re-registering thing could be dodgy but might just be that a new owner took over.

Sleep - it just sounds as if you and this particular nursery have very different approaches to sleep.

In my experience working in nurseries, babies tend to be put to sleep individually in cot on their own schedules and can be rocked if necessary, but toddlers all sleep together after lunch usually on mats.
They are unlikely to let him cry it out as it would disturb the other children but it's also unlikely they'd be able to rock him - more common is an adult sitting next the the cot/mat and patting them to sleep.
They need all the kids asleep at the same time to facilitate staff lunch breaks but no child should be stuck in a cot awake for 2 hours.

Childcare staff don't have any 'magic' ways of getting children to sleep, it's just sleep training - routine, firm boundaries and sleep cues.

On the childminder issue - I find I'm able to be more responsive about sleep as a childminder than I could in a nursery just because I can go out for a walk in the pram or rock a baby to sleep in a buggy in the house.
The ratio is 1 adult to 3 little ones, occasionally 4 - if a childminder has 8 children it will be because at least 5 are over 5 years old and a couple of those are over 8 years olds so they don't tend to need naps 😂

I agree that the registration could just be a new owner (I think you can change name without a full new registration, but I might be wrong), but if that's it, surely you make that clear to prospective parents so that they can understand how to interpret the Ofsted reports and reviews? Either in a positive sense if the nursery had a good reputation 'we had to re-register because owner retired, but very experienced manager/room lead/whomever took over' or as a way of indicating a step change if the reputation and inspections weren't as good.

There is no way that babies and toddlers should be forced to stay in cots for 2 hours. That is pure laziness on the part of the staff or implies that do not have enough staff. Ofsted and DofE are very hot on babies not being restricted by being placed in pens/cots unnecessarily as it restricts their physical development. I would not be happy with this aspect of their sleep routine and I cannot believe they are actually saying this to parents.

The closing and reopening under a similar name could be simply a change in owner OR it could be a nursery trying to hide bad Ofsted reports. I know of one nursery that got inspected as inadequate who then closed briefly and opened up with same staff and management under a different name as a 'new' setting.

I think you need to do your research and ask questions OP. And look elsewhere if you are not happy with the answers.

Hi @Superstorefan123- 20+ yrs senior experience in nurseries. Hope this helps!

• sleep - told the nursery my son struggles to sleep independently and would potentially struggle to settle. He can be held, rocked, prammed, fed to sleep etc but can’t just be laid down to fall asleep. They said bluntly due to staff ratios they can’t rock or cuddle but they would pick him up as a last resort but try other things first. They said they could sit with him initially and pat him if needed. I worry what that means in practice.

very normal for sleep time. You’ll be amazed how children adjust to routines/expectations and they’re usually shattered by lunch time from so much fun! Lay down and pat usually means gently stroking them, so they have contact but learn to sleep independently.

• they are constantly promoting via email a well known local sleep trainer and have on their website a lot of info about it being important children learn to self settle - again I recognise this will be in the end goal at nursery that he can just lie down and fall asleep but I am very anti sleep training and I expected some comfort in the beginning at least?

this is likely to be part of their partnership working. ignore if you want to!

• they said they put all the children in cribs at 12 and have a 2 hour sleep window. They said if my son wasn’t tired they’d give him some toys to play with in the crib - but do you think they mean 2 hours sat in a crib?! He normally only sleeps for 1 hour and I was expecting less at nursery! That’s a long time just to sit!

I would ask for clarification. It’s prob the sleep window is the time allocated, I.e they get all children up at 2 ready for the afternoon plan. You should clarify what happens if child doesn’t want to sleep or wakes before 2. Might be quiet activities- nursery is a very tiring day so rest and quiet time is important for physical health.

• they last had an Ofsted in 2018 which had some improvements required. They then ‘shut the nursery’ at some point (not sure when but we viewed in 2023 and operations have never ceased as far as I can tell) but reopened in 2024 under same name (changed childcare to nursery in title) and same location. They have no ofsted now as they are too ‘new’… however surely red flags?? A was of avoiding scrutiny?

they have likely changed owner or from a sole trader to limited company or to a charity. In 2018 all reports had ways to improve, even outstanding. If it was less than good they’d have been reinspected in 6 or 12 months and there would have been a newer report. every new nursery is inspected within 30 months.

• they have no reviews online again because they are ‘new’ but they aren’t?? On their website they say they’ve been running for years!

Do they seek reviews? Have you asked about locally for others experiences? How did you find out about the nursery? Most people on voluntarily leave reviews of negative or pushed to.

I hope this helps a bit x