Why are nurseries so filthy?

[olyaro]

Over the past year, I’ve visited many local nurseries — not fewer than eight — all of which had excellent reviews and even Ofsted Outstanding ratings. However, the one thing they all had in common was how shockingly unclean they were. Each time I visited, I felt uncomfortable even touching anything. The floors and surfaces didn’t look properly cleaned, there was often an unpleasant smell, and dirty clothes were piled up in corners.

What surprised me most is that in every nursery, parents and visitors are allowed to walk in with outdoor shoes, which clearly contributes to the dirt and unhygienic environment.
I’ve given this some thought, and I believe the problem stems from two main things:

1. The lack of a no-shoes policy indoors
2. The absence of a dedicated cleaner during the day

For comparison, my sister's daughter attends a nursery in another country — it’s spotless.(it's much cheaper than random nursery in the UK) There, a cleaner is employed throughout the day and the environment is kept clean and fresh.

It makes me wonder: Why isn’t there a rule or minimum hygiene requirement in UK nurseries that includes a dedicated cleaner on duty? Of course, I understand this would increase costs, but I believe proper hygiene should be non-negotiable where young children are concerned. I doubt these nurseries are ever deep-cleaned properly, and it’s no surprise that children constantly get sick. Poor hygiene seems to be a major contributor.
As a side note, I myself went to a nursery that was immaculately clean, and I’ve always had good immunity and rarely get sick. So I find it hard to believe that exposing children to unsanitary environments somehow "strengthens their immunity." In my view, it just makes them ill.

There is little support and funding for nurseries so no chance of cleaner. Also if fire alarm goes off can't get all children's shoes on

I've worked in lots of nurseries.
One nursery I worked employed a cleaner 4 days a week and then on the day she was off, the nursery staff had to pick up the slack.

The owner of the nursery drove a new Mercedes, dressed in branded clothes, looked very well kept and had just bought a big,new house.

She could probably afford to pay a cleaner for 5 days work or her nursery staff more than minimum wage but then maybe she wouldn't be able to have all her lovely new things.

may I ask you what nursery do your kids go to?

My friend works in one where they have to clean at the end of a long 12 hour shift. No wonder things may be overlooked.

I visit a lot of nurseries, from big chains to small preschools, in the course of my job. Many absolutely do have shoes off policies, at least in the baby room, so I am always ready to take off shoes or put covers on them. On the other hand, many do not, especially where there is free flow play inside and outside, which many nurseries have - you can see why you wouldn't want to be constantly putting children's shoes on and taking them off.

I have to say while some nurseries I visit are a bit grubby, most of them are not at all. We probably have quite different standards though, I wouldn't expect "spotless" from a nursery, it is not a hospital.

Is it a necessary requirement for nurseries to have free flow access between indoor and outdoor areas? I’ve noticed that in many European countries, nurseries are much cleaner — perhaps because they don’t follow this particular “rule.”
What’s the issue with having designated outdoor time — for example, two hours a day or more if needed — and then offering a variety of interesting activities indoors afterward?
I’m genuinely curious about the benefit of allowing children to constantly run back and forth between inside and outside spaces. From a hygiene and organisation perspective, wouldn’t it make more sense to separate the two?

I think the shoes on culture is disgusting. Also the attitude towards illness such as HFM with no exclusion period . Low standards and lack of motivation in low paid and overworked staff just creates this type of unpleasant environment where children exist rather than thrive.

Children thrive on structure and routine. Free flow can just create laziness in poor settings. Far better to have set times for outdoor play etc which also makes the transition to school easier .

A lot of setting also have free flow snack times with jugs so children can pour their own water and fruit etc available when wanted. Much better for a set snack time where hands are washed prior to eating and it’s a whole group social experience which helps development and healthy attitudes to food.

In DDs nurseries the staff cleaned before they left, often with some small children trailing behind them.
There was always a feeling of grubbiness.

What it needed was a weekend deep clean/touch up every month but they don’t want to spend money like that.

All the nurserys I've been to in the UK (granted a few when looking round for my ds) had a no shoes policy for the baby rooms. Only when they got to toddler stage (so walking) did they drop that rule.

DD’s nurseries weren’t dirty (she went to 2). They had shoes off for the non walking baby rooms but not in the bigger ones as they were free flow.

There was plenty of mess in germs of paint, glue and that sort of thing. But not unhygienic.

I don’t think dirt is a bad thing necessarily though, kids are suffering from lack of exposure. You sound a bit too keen on clean @olyaro

I like free flow, we have free flow at school for Reception and Year 1 too for most of the day. It allows play to be imaginative and child led and for them to become more independent- I can’t think of any reason why it’s not great for kids in a well resourced and supervised area. I don’t want them nailed down to a desk any sooner than strictly necessary.

At DD’s nursery they had some periods of the day that were for specific activities like phonics in pre-school or a particular craft activity or story time but otherwise the kids decide on what they do and where and moved most (not all) resources inside and out at will.

Some messy, slightly chaotic and not completely clean play is good.

In Scandinavian countries all children and nursery workers change to indoor shoes. Parents picking up their children need to put on soles. I think it makes sense when you have small children crawling around on the floor🤷‍♀️

You wrote this same post about 3 months ago didn’t you

It is about giving children independence to learn in a style that works for them.
It allows children to engage in learning that meets their individual needs.
outdoors should reflect indoors, so they should be able to access the same learning outside as inside.
Some children hate outdoors and would
mot respond well to having to be outdoors for a set period of time.

As I’ve said not all nurseries are the same.
its unfair to judge is all by one experience.
There are filthy restaurants I would never eat in but them at doesn’t mean all
restaurants are dirty!

This is interesting. My DD has had a couple of ear infections, but worse is that often when she gets a virus, her hearing declines for quite a while after. It’s affecting speech. She has now just finished reception which has been even more relentless with viruses.

I think kids should be able to get mucky and muddy, but these concentrated viral soups they live in at schools and nursery are not good for them. Shoes on or off, a lot could be cleaner, but so much seems to operate on a shoestring. Staff are stretched, but yes, many nurseries could do with a cleaner and a more regular deeper clean.

I don’t know why, but I’ve not considered about shoes off in nurseries before. It makes sense for the baby room. Ours had to leave wellies at nursery, but they were only used when it had been raining/for mud kitchen. I’m not sure how shoes off would work for freeflow and given the choice, I’d rather freeflow so the room was well ventilated, given how many viruses are airborne. We suggest much higher indoor co2 levels here than some other countries and even that is not really adhered to, so ventilation helps with that too.

To the poster who mentioned a couple of poos frequently left on bookcases, WTF?! How weren’t these spotted?! I’m assuming they were done by a kid, rather than nappies or bagged up accidents.

I did not use a nursery 22 years ago and actually changed my work after viewing both the state of hygiene and the age/experience of the staff. It’s not a new issue.

Staff clean through the day - after meals, toilet areas after lunch to make sure they are clean for the afternoon session. We have a cleaner at the end of the day and who does a weekend deep clean. Washing is done daily for bedding, bibs etc.

We are shoes off in the rooms while playing but children won’t change shoes unless muddy to use the toilet and then back out. Baby room is shoes off for everyone, children, staff, visitors.

Even so, lots of children playing, painting, using pens and glitter and glue etc do make things have a grubby edge!

My LO nursery actually seems really clean but it’s small so maybe easier to keep on top of?
so they just make it part of the day and the kids help lol.