Is this too many toddlers in a room

[Spudtacular1000]

Hi,

Looking at a nursery and it has 20x 21 months to 2.5 yo in one room which my child will be in at 21 months old.

Wanted some opinions on what the norm is in terms of room capacity and if this is ok or a room with a smaller group is better?

Nursery is Ofsted Outstanding and close to home.

What's the ratio?

So they said it is within the legal limits so if there are 5 or 6 under 2s then there would be 2 adults and then the other over 2s would be 1 to 5.

So for example there could be 5 staff in the room it just depends.

A smaller group would be better for the children (and the adults) but it's legal. Depends what your options are.

Legally it’s fine, but I wouldn’t have wanted it. But spaces are at a premium so if the rest of the nursery is amazing it might be a decent compromise.

That's on average a birthday party invite every 2nd or 3rd week.

That would be a hard no from me 🤣

When DD was 2 we lived in the US and that group size would have been illegal - maximum in one room was 15 or 16 depending on whether they were 1 or 2 years old. I know the UK allows it but that sounds busy and chaotic and it wouldn’t be my first choice but then I don’t know what alternatives you have and how they compare.

Yes, I think that's far too many toddlers in a room. I think the 1:5 staffing ratio isn't good enough either (but it is legal and likely to be the case in all nurseries). When I worked in nurseries it was 1:4 and I thought that was too high. Expecting one person to give good quality, focussed care to five two year olds is insane.

That's interesting because the US seems to have scarily high ratios in many states - like 1:12 including babies. The ratio seems much more crucial to me.

Oh no. Another nursery we wanted no longer has space so this would've been a good option if it wasnt for the room size.

DS went to a very sought after nursery for a bit on Wednesdays the number in the room was similar- it was just too many busy children.

For me it depends on the room itself. All nurseries will be adhering to legal staffing ratios unless they want to risk being in serious trouble.

We removed DD from a nursery because she was moved up from babies to the toddler room and there were 15 kids in the toddler space that was made up of 2 quite small rooms with no direct access to any outside space. I picked her up one day and commented how hot it was and a member of staff said that in one of the rooms the windows didn't open. There was a nursery garden but they didn't use it every day, and if they did it was for short bursts. Some days they started not going outside at all and for us that was absolutely not good enough.

Her new nursery has the same number of kids in the room but there are bifolding doors onto a big garden and they're free to run in and out all day. The room is bigger, more ventilation and just much more practical. She is so much happier.

I would avoid. So many toddlers in the same space will make for a very noisy room as there is likely to be several crying at any one time. It’s a more overwhelming environment for younger toddlers to navigate compared to a smaller room with fewer staff.

I will defo look at the layout of the room and see how it is.

I am a bit wary now with these replies!

It is interesting isn’t it. As well as banning the large groups our state also had a requirement to keep the under 2s away from the older ones so 21MOs wouldn’t ever be in with 2.5YOs. So I’d personally conclude that if somewhere that has laxer standards than the UK sees that age spread and group size as something to ban then it really isn’t ideal. I know not everyone would come to that conclusion but that’s my take on it anyway!

Also, I’m not hot on every state’s legislation because there are so many of them but I think 1:12 including babies is probably a bit of an exaggeration. Yes they’re generally higher but they’re not THAT high! Where we lived it was 1:4 for infants, 1:5 for 15-23 months, 1:8 for 2YOs and 1:10 for 3/4YOs which is actually lower than England which allows 1:13 with a teacher. And also all the good daycares we viewed had an extra assistant to help cover breaks and ensure the kids could be safely taken out so they were well under ratio for the majority of the day. Just because something is legally allowed doesn’t necessarily always mean that it’s best practice- same as this group size as the nursery OP is looking at really.

Minnesota, for example, allows 1:12 including 1 infant and 1 toddler. Good point in your first paragraph.

Ask if there is a fire how would they get them out of the building safely? That’s a lot of toddlers! What’s the set up can they immediately exit the building via the garden door? Are they upstairs in a building?

So i went to see the nursery.

There are 15 in the baby room.

And 20 in the 21 months to 2.5 yo room but it was so well managed.

There are structured activities, big rooms, half are indoor half outdoor, snack times are rolling so not all at once but meal times are sitting all together they said. The numbers sound alot but there was an indoor outdoor flow.

It was calm and well managed.

And it was on the ground floor.

Does everyone still think this would be too many in the room?

I think there were 20 in the 2yo room when my elder DD was in nursery (she is nearly 14 now, it was 1:4ratio then). It never felt noisy or overwhelming as it was a massive room plus garden plus soft play. So it all depends on how its organised, how big it is etc.

Her sisters nursery always felt a bit more claustrophobic because despite being a maximum of 8, it was about a quarter of the size.

I think it sounds fine to me, as the size and layout of the room sound good. My DCs' nursery has fewer children but that's because it's tiny. Also 21 months to 2.5 sounds pretty sensible - it's a smaller range than 2-3 years, which is what our nursery has, and if they have many little babies (under 1) then it'll be nicer for the 21-month-olds to be with other walking, talking toddlers than stuck in the baby room. I remember DS1 being absolutely desperate to get into the 2-3 room.

This is helpful thank you!

Thank you :)

There is a legal requirement for floor space against children for different ages so this will be fine. More important is the staff ratios are good.

It sounds fine if they have easy movement for free flow. The two year room can get lively and they need the space outside to run and climb.

We used to have 20 children from age 2 to 3 years, so slightly older..
We had a brilliant space though we had a base room that could be divided in half an art room and outside so it was rare for 20 children to be together. The only time was nap time and after tea.
It depends on what you feel though. Have you seen the room and how they engage the children? Are the children happy? Do the staff seem stressed!
I think I would rely on that rather than the actual number of children.

Really calm actually and they're more than happy for me to go and have a look again when I like.

I suppose i was thinking the children would wake each other up that bit more during nap time but they said they manage it by sending any children that wake to other areas of the large space or outside with someone which makes sense.

Yes the free flow is a plus