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Been offered a place at a STEINER NURSERY, any experience?

64 replies

QuintessentialShadows · 21/04/2008 21:01

My nearly 3 year old son has been offered a place at a Steiner Nursery. Does anybody have any experience of this kind of nursery?

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CoteDAzur · 22/04/2008 11:00

Yes. Ask the questions and watch them squirm.

For some reason, they don't ever tell prospective parents that their pedagogy is based on the belief that the goal of early education is to facilitate the reincarnation of the soul in that little body. They don't tell parents about the dance they teach little ones to help them 'communicate with the spirit world'.

When you ask direct questions, they get very evasive, and tell you a load of peripheral stuff in a singsong voice, with lots of smiles.

Basically, their goal is your child. Their involvement is with your child. Not with you. They don't feel they have to involve you in their plans for your child.

Very creepy.

Janni · 22/04/2008 11:12

Intrigued to hear about reaction. I guarantee you will think it all very beautiful. Do look beneath the surface though...

QuintessentialShadows · 22/04/2008 14:35

I have just come back. I shall give you a full account. But first, I shall go and let my little son take part in the domestic sphere, we shall cut vegetables together, in preparation for our dinner.

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northernrefugee39 · 22/04/2008 16:36

Me too, can't wait to hear their reaction!
Was going to come in with some other questions.
Are their guardian angels always watching them?
If you come from a race which is spiritually inferior to the white, blond aryan one, what are your child's serious chances of incarnating blond next time round?

Greensleeves · 22/04/2008 16:41

at "are gnomes real?"

northernrefugee39 · 22/04/2008 17:07

There's a mum from the Steiner ours went to,who is anthroposophical, ( they have no Gp and use anthrop plant stuff, don't go to the dentist, eat really strangely, or hardly eat some of the time I think, her kids look starved.
I once had a converstaion with her about a fairy/water sprite she'd seen. Seriously. They really believe it.

ProfYaffle · 22/04/2008 17:20

A friend of mine is currently trying to settle her 3yo into a Steiner Nursery. She's had major problems, teacher wouldn't allow her to stay with her dd to settle her, my friend was actually escorted from the building! (she only wanted to stay 10 mins or so and this was the 2nd session)

I think there's something in the Steiner philosophy about the teacher/pupil relationship being superior to the parent/child relationship? I could have got that wrong though. Friend is looking for a new nursery.

northernrefugee39 · 22/04/2008 17:28

ProfYaffle, anthroposophic belief is that the relatioship between child and teacher is karmic, the choild karmically sort out that teacher.
The teacher is seen as having a "sacred task" in teaching the child.
Parents aren'tin the equasion atall I'm afreaid!
The child is an empty vessel to be helped through their incarnation, and prpared for their next one.
Too bad, the parent is just a transporting shell as far as their concerned.

northernrefugee39 · 22/04/2008 17:30

Prof, I think your friend should star asking questions!
Much of the stuff that happened to my kids was really really cruel, and completely over ode any sort of common sense, all because of some warped spiritual belief.

northernrefugee39 · 22/04/2008 17:30

Start asking I meant

ProfYaffle · 22/04/2008 17:53

From what I can gather I don't think she's looked too closely into the philosophy. I'm quietly gathering links from the various Steiner threads to forward to her. She's pretty much decided to take her dd out already though, so may not be needed.

northernrefugee39 · 22/04/2008 19:03

If she didn't look closely into the philosophy, it's not surprising.
The schools don't mention it in their promotional material or when asked.
We didn't hear or seee the word anthroposophy until we'd been at the school a while, and anthroposophic medicine was mentioned in conjunction with our kids check up with the school anthroposophic doctor. We assumed it was some sort of homeopathic thing, anthroposophy.Not a pseudo religion, whose main purpose was to see our kids into their next reincarnation, and prepare them for communicating clairvoyantly with the spirits who will manifest themselves int the future!

The school notice board/weekly magazine sometimes had things which mentioned anthropsophy, but as it was attatched to a camphill community, we just thought it was to do with homeopathic type stuff there.
#No one evr put us straight.
They went out of their way to not tell us what it was all about.

In our naivity. we trysted the teachers, administrators, the so caled experts selling us this education.
Liars.

northernrefugee39 · 22/04/2008 19:04

or even trusted them, but I suppose we also formed a tryst!

QuintessentialShadows · 22/04/2008 19:23

Yup, I met a very nice and unassuming woman who showed me the nursery. She had timed the visit to coincide with story time that took place in a room in the basement, so I did not get to neither see nor hear any children. But, they must have been there, as I could see their clothing on the pegs, and I could hear a hushed voice telling a story.

It was very bare, hardly any toys, outside there were no swings, no slides just a large rambling garden (covered in snow of course) and a play house at the bottom.

In fact, 50% of the indoor space was a large kitchen. Wooden long table and chairs to sit at.

There were some roots from trees adorning the windows, and a few wooden animals.

This is what I learnt from my conversation with the woman:

There is morning assembly in the morning where they talk about the soul, and the seeds of life and nature. They believe in doing exactly the same thing each week, they keep to the same rhythm. On mondays they go to the forest, the go to the same place every time so they can see the seasons change and how everything is different in spring, winter, when it rains, snows, etc. On Tuesdays they paint, they paint themese relevant to the different festivities and seasons, and special events on the Steiner calendar. On wednesdays they cut vegetables, as this is the kitchen day where they do domestic things relevant to food preparation, including tidying and washing up.

They dont really have toys. There is nothing plastic, only natural materials such as wood, cotton, wool, etc. They mostly play role plays, where they pretend and re-enact animal life and nature, and festivities.
They prepare for spring by planting seeds, and tending to seedlings, which are planted out in summer.

The nursery staff dont really facilitate play, and dont really interact with the children, but they do domestic chores next to them so they know they are around if they are needed. Like in summer, they will weed the garden when the kids are out having free play, so they get used to being around house and garden work. Children always want to do as the adults do, and take part in housework and the domestic sphere, so this is what they get. They get to be in an environment very similar to home, with adults performing chores and inviting the children to join in.

All this takes part in strengthening their body and the soul, and it prepared the body for the soul? (At this point, I wondered, whose soul? Their own soul? Is there no soul in the body of a child? I did not ask, as I was a little too mystified about the thougth of my three year old coming to nursery to cut carrots and prepare his soul).

I think there was more, but I think I have covered most. Oh, yes, there was a picture of Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus on the wall (actually the only adornment in the room) and she said they did recognise Mary as one of the goddesses, and they were bound by law to follow Christian Ethic in their teaching, but it was not really important to them. Their curriculum is different from the national, and would not confuse the child with letters and numbers, other than when counting out vegetables or for other practical reasons.

Do you think I am sending him?

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Lauriefairycake · 22/04/2008 19:31

from reading only your post Quin it doesn't sound awful - different, but not awful.

Lauriefairycake · 22/04/2008 19:32

it sounds very natural, where they discover the world for themselves

Caveat - only from your last post and description - the rest sounds loony

easeonline · 22/04/2008 20:30

"All this takes part in strengthening their body and the soul, and it prepared the body for the soul?"

I guess they have at least made some allusion to the belief system, i.e. that your child, while still in the spirit world chose the parents to attend to the physical incarnation of the body.
The etheric body incarnates at seven years (the change of teeth.)
The astral incarnation comes about at age fourteen, and the ego ( the individual "I") incarnates at age 21.
FWIW, an individual's Guardian Angel leaves them at age 28.
There is a wee bit more at my website.www.easeonline.org/Education.htm
Make of it what you will. For some folk it is just what they are looking for, for others, its run-a-mile-time.
Davy

QuintessentialShadows · 22/04/2008 20:44

"Teachers, whose role it appears, is to enable Karma rather than stifle it, seem to find it difficult working with Rudolf Steiner's views to make decisions about when, or indeed if, they should intervene.
"

  • from your website. This explains why they dont interact much with the children and just stay alongside them, rather than facilitating play.
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barking · 22/04/2008 21:04

Hi Quintessentialshadow just seen this. Looks like you have made your mind up already. Reading it through I would have said go and see for yourself. I really don't want to be accused of having or being part of some fringe hate group thing.

I'm in the UK, I found out about steiner education about 7 years ago (before I had a computer) and thought I had found the holy grail. The aesthetics, the nature, the art, all pulled us in. We moved house, changed our lives, no tv, no vaccinations, no laughing (it is terribly serious and precious this steiner business!) only natural food, clothing toys etc. I was the perfect earth mother or tried to be. Each gesture, word, and experience had to be imbued with a spiritual quality. Your child in order to become a true steiner child must have a confident, quiet, light sanguine quality to them - can you imagine the weight on those little shoulders!

Slowly I began to realise things weren't right after a while, I couldn't put my finger on it. There was a sinister feeling to the place, a quietness with a controlled hysteria within where all the teachers talked in high pitched sing song voices and eveything was done slowly and deliberately.
My child didn't want to go, the room consisted of a picture of mary and jesus on the wall, a kitchen, a work table for felting or wax drawings (no black crayons, no sharp corners - even the paper has curved edges. I won't tell you why there are no sharp corners in a steiner schools as its too bonkers), there were lots of silks, fir cones, pebbles and a play kitchen - all geared up for girls. When I asked if there was any wheeled items the teachers told me they all got broken.

Because all wasn't well, I got my dh to go and see what he thought and he observed a quiet earnest misery to the place, it was utterly devoid of any humour, laughter wasn't an option. If there is a child who presents difficult behaviour, they are told they are an indigo child - spirited! strong! creative! It excuses a myriad of problems and is convenient for the parent who wants to stay in denial. The school believe it's a past life issue, but they don't tell you this, as anthoposophy is hidden from parents until later, when they think you are ready you are invited to join a study group
When parents agonised about letting their child play with a non-steiner child, they were told to best play with children from the school to support each other and the community. Hitting was allowed, none of the parents or teachers responded, it was only when this happened to my own child and I was told it was karma that I began to research what steiner waldorf and anthroposphy really means and we left very quickly. A friend recently told me when she was at the same school, a child wacked a new born baby with a branch across the head and apparently the teacher actually responded with holding the childs hands and screeched 'gentle hands, gentle hands, we all use gentle hands'

A good article warm and woolly sums things up.

QuintessentialShadows · 22/04/2008 21:36

Barking, thanks for recommending that link, just read it, and I am that I almost subjected my son to that! Imagine how confusing, one child who went to a Catholic Faith school, and one in Steiner Education? Not something for us.

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DianaW · 22/04/2008 23:40

"All this takes part in strengthening their body and the soul, and it prepared the body for the soul? (At this point, I wondered, whose soul? Their own soul? Is there no soul in the body of a child?"

They believe that the "etheric body" is not born till age 7. Prior to that, yes, the child is physically there but the soul is not, anthroposophists believe. She wasn't kidding you.

"Oh, yes, there was a picture of Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus on the wall (actually the only adornment in the room) and she said they did recognise Mary as one of the goddesses, and they were bound by law to follow Christian Ethic in their teaching, but it was not really important to them."

This was probably the Sistine Madonna, displayed in most Steiner nurseries per Steiner's orders.

DianaW · 22/04/2008 23:44

"I won't tell you why there are no sharp corners in a steiner schools as its too bonkers"

It's because there are no lines in the spirit world, and children are thought to be recently arrived from the spirit world. They are not yet fully "incarnated." All the soft colors and soft shapes are supposed to be more welcoming to the newly arriving soul; sharp lines, bright colors are "awakening," in other words, bring in the soul and intellect before the body is ready.

DianaW · 22/04/2008 23:47

"Barking:

he observed a quiet earnest misery to the place, it was utterly devoid of any humour,
laughter wasn't an option."

That's common.

I'm sorry, Quintessential, that I didn't get to posting my description before you went. (Honestly last night I just forgot.)

I worked in the Steiner kindergarten/nursery for parts of 3 school years. Humorless would be a nice way to put it. The place was chaos - unsafe, mismanaged, unfriendly to children. The lead teachers (I worked for 4 different teachers at different times) were with one exception not people who liked children or knew how to relate to children. I saw mouths washed out with soap and children picked up by the neck, bullying and fights unattended, etc. The parents saw a lovely, pastel silk-draped enchanted play place; the children were quite often sincerely miserable. Parents were always told everything was fine when children were miserable.

DianaW · 22/04/2008 23:54

Just a thought, Quintessential, from your description you have spared yourself and your child a place that sounds pretty fundamentalist anthroposophical. The schools do vary in rigidity, the extent to which they do "all Steiner" etc. - some have lightened up a bit.

From your description, these people are pretty serious, not likely to be the flexible types.

QuintessentialShadows · 23/04/2008 06:05

Thanks DianaW, I was wondering why the tables were such an odd "wave" shape, as opposed to just rectangular, and why the staircase had been extended in width to reach the opposite wall, making it very wide and with rounded corners. I did not think they were trying to adhere to something "Steiner" in this strange carpentry, only that somebody quite loopy had refurbished the place. And yes, there were NO colours. Everything was white, oatmeal, wood, and wool and cotton.

I am very happy I posted this thread, it has given me a glimpse in to what Steiner is, and it sounds very strange. I cannot believe that these schools get state funding, and montessorris dont!

Without the feedback from you guys, I would have thought it nice and natural, but quite different. But not religious and not bonkers.

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