Top up fees, has anyone challenged them??

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Just wondering what the best course of action is and if anyone here has navigated this situation before.

I'd like to send my 3 year old to preschool in September. The local one is connected to the school he will likely be attending and it all seems very nice.

This year however, they have decided to charge top up fees. The morning session is 3 hours and you have to pay £25 including lunch. You have to send your child for a minimum of three sessions, so it will be costing us £75 a week for 9 hours.

I have asked if I can send a packed lunch or take him home before the lunch period to reduce the charge. They say I cannot.

Obviously this isn't allowed according to their funding agreement with the local council, but they are doing it anyway.

I feel it's a really steep amount to access 3 hours of "free" education/care for my child.

I suppose I can go to the council and ask them to investigate this. I worry about the school taking the hump and withdrawing a place for my child, and then I have to find another placement or keep him home.

Is there realistically anything we can do as parents to challenge this amount? Does anyone have any experience with other settings that may be of help? Thanks in advance.

You could write to your MP and demand more funding for nurseries (and schools while you are at it!)

Is it right ? No

Would I pay it? Yes

if you really want this nursery, that’s something you’re going to have to pay. Funding does not cover everything.

DS goes 17 hours a week term time only so supposedly 15 of those are free but our termly bill is somehow still £2000. He doesn’t stay for lunch, takes his own snack and water bottle and is fully potty trained so his ‘consumables’ are literally just a few sheets of toilet paper so it seems like poor value put like that. However, it’s well known that thanks to government underfunding the funded rate doesn’t come close to the cost of actually looking after the child. I think it’s best to look at it like that’s what the subsidy is, rather than in terms of ‘free hours’ because it blatantly isn’t free and that’s not the nursery’s fault. So either take the place or don’t but no I wouldn’t challenge it, except perhaps in more general terms with your MP.

Thanks everyone, interesting to hear other's opinions. I sympathise with the preschools funding issues, I was just shocked by the amount and annoyed I can't even opt out of lunch.

You could try. But if you managed to bring in legislation to prevent it many childcare settings would go bust leaving none behind for the next set of preschool age kids and parents.

It's already against the rules. Top up fees are only allowed to optional things (eg lunch where the parents can send in their own and parents must be allowed to opt out), and the nursery place cannot be contingent on the parent paying the additional charge.

We offer completely funded hours but these are 9-12 without lunch, so that if they go mon-fri they do the universally funded 15 hours. We do have parents that choose this option.

If the parent needs different or more flexible hours then there are meal charges and/or consumables charges in our fee structure but by offering the 9-12 option we ensure that all our children do have an option to attend without needing to make any payment.

Consumables also include the paper, paint, pens, new resources, toys, books etc that are used and need to be renewed/replaced over time. The electric and water used, the cost of running the building, pay staff. Basically everything that isn't covered by the low funding rate but still needs to be there for the children to learn from and have fun with.

You are being charged £8.33 per hour for your child to be looked after.
The funding is just that, funding, it’s not free. The funding varies in each local authority area. It’s roughly £6 per hour.

So the total is somewhere around £14-£15 per hour for childcare. This is not excessive or unreasonable.

If you don’t want to pay it you always have the option to go elsewhere?

So you're getting completely "free" funding? And you're moaning about paying for any of it? Jeez

If this were to be enforced by the letter of the rules, the risk is that nurseries would opt out altogether of offering “funded” places - as some CMs do already.

Umm… at 3, this is pre school. I went to nursery school for free in the 1970s and started my learning there. Mum was SAH so it was definitely learning not childcare.

I don't know what what can be done but to give some perspective. I pay £80 a day for the days my son attends nursery that are not funded. On the funded days I pay £15 a day for consumables. So it's close to £1,000 a month even with funding. So instead of costing us nearly £20,000 a year it now costs £12,000. Obviously this comes out of our take home pay so it's significant. But I guess I should be grateful!

I'm not allowed to be put out by paying for a free thing? I don't understand your post, sorry.

The rules are actually that it is supposed to be free though.

Then you are providing the funded care exactly how you are supposed to, as far as I have read.

A common argument seems to be that nurseries cannot continue to remain open without charging additional top up fees. What would you opinion be on this, if you don't mind me asking?

YANBU and this is not typical for a preschool. My DD currently gets 15 hours free so she does 5 afternoons per week and it costs us literally nothing. From September she will be eligible for the 30 hours funding, this covers morning and afternoon sessions and then we will be charged £5 a day for the lunchtime session. So £25 a week for term time while school days. £100 a month or £80 with the tax free childcare. Then we are also charged £20 a term for snack fees.

If it was free there wouldn't be any childcare. It's like gold dust in some areas. Staff shortages. Lack of spaces. Just pay it.

I opened the thread to say that the Nurseries do need to be able to top up what the Gvmnt Funding doesn't cover but YANBU at all.

Charging you £25 for the 3 funded hours is WAY more than a 'top up'.
That is extortionate and shouldn't be allowed.

Can nurseries opt out entirely of providing the free hours? If childminders can, what is the difference - both are private businesses?

@ABirdsEyeView They can but unless they are the only Nursery in the area, nobody would use them.

Thanks for the reply @NewName24
I think this would all work better if the govt framed it as being a contribution to fees rather than free hours. This whole thing where nurseries inflate lunch costs etc, to recoup costs, just ends up making parents feel ripped off by the nursery, whereas reframing it as a contribution would take that feeling away.

I normally defend nurseries on these threads because it’s not their fault the government don’t pay them enough to offer the hours actually for free (I have no idea how some preschools manage this). I have always looked at it as being thankful the bill is a bit lower than it was previously once the funded hours kicked in.

however, £25 for 3 hours is taking the piss and is significantly more than most childminders charge, on top of whatever they get from the government. I’d look elsewhere!

It would, but they don’t want to. Much better to blame it on nurseries

That's extortionate.

My daughter's preschool 'top up costs' are £5 a TERM (even then they are that it's not compulsory especially if you can't afford it). They all bring a packed lunch, snack is provided.

This is for an outstanding rated preschool with excellent facilities, a huge amount of outdoor space, added activities, animals on site etc. It's pretty much heaven.

My old childminder charged 0 extra, and a nursery I used briefly (it was great, but stopgap before excitement preschool) was £1 an hour which included a cooked lunch.

So clearly it is doable without huge top ups, which are entirely illegal.