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Nursery asked to me to keep daughter home due to OFSTED visiting

287 replies

Fidgitigdif123 · 01/05/2024 08:44

So my daughter is 4 and has a diagnosis of autism. She has a speech and language delay, and needs some support throughout the day, particularly when it comes to toileting, but isn't too difficult to handle, and she generally keeps herself to herself. The nursery are always praising her for how good she's been during the day, and they always say she's a happy girl who enjoys being there.
I had a phone call from her key worker the other day (who also happens to be one of the nursery managers), asking me to keep her home the following day because they have an OFSTED inspector visiting. Apparently they don't have enough staff to be able to support my daughter while the OFSTED inspector is visiting (apparently they'll need a member of staff to show the inspector around, which will mean my daughter won't have anyone to support her during the visit).
I'm confused by this, as there's been countless times where they've had several staff off sick at one time (including her key worker), and yet she's still been able to go into nursery.
I'm actually starting to think they just want her out of the way for the day so it'll be easier for them to focus on the inspection, but surely this would be the best time to show off how good they are at dealing with children with SEN and other disabilities?
I genuinely don't know if I'm right in being a little bit upset about this, as it feels like they just want to sweep her under the carpet; like they're embarrassed by her being there or something.

OP posts:
CaptainMyCaptain · 05/05/2024 11:18

InTheUpsideDownToday · 05/05/2024 10:53

@CaptainMyCaptain

"I do. I am old enough to remember regular visits from HMIs and County Advisors which were always very helpful. A system which points out weaknesses and helps correct them would be good. Ofsted is not that."

I think it must be working in some areas though?
A local school near me went from "Inadequate" (with a full report of improvements and unsafe practices that they currently had), to "requires improvement at next inspection, then to "good" at the latest one.

But LA advisors could have brought about that change just as well.

Ilovechocolatelimesandsherbertlemons · 05/05/2024 13:37

Unfortunately because schools did not have to take notice, the advisory services were not always very effective. You are assuming that all schools are well led and managed, and the children are safe and learning well. Sadly this is not actually the case.

eatingandeating24 · 05/05/2024 13:58

InTheUpsideDownToday · 05/05/2024 10:53

@CaptainMyCaptain

"I do. I am old enough to remember regular visits from HMIs and County Advisors which were always very helpful. A system which points out weaknesses and helps correct them would be good. Ofsted is not that."

I think it must be working in some areas though?
A local school near me went from "Inadequate" (with a full report of improvements and unsafe practices that they currently had), to "requires improvement at next inspection, then to "good" at the latest one.

Nostalgia is a great comfort! HMI's are still involved in OFSTED inspections and so are "county advisors" (but not from the same LEA where an OFSTED inspection takes place) to avoid conflict of interest. Also, OFSTED inspectors are advised not to go back to a recently inspected school (in which they were involved) for paid "advisory" work. In the ILEA we were called "inspectors" and that description was carried through to most London boroughs. Much has changed in the LEA inspection structures due to the gradual erosion of funding for this much appreciated LEA function. ILEA was abolished in 1990, OFSTED started 1992. First OFSTED inspections were full of buzz and professional excitement as we were all engaged on constructing a more independent model for "monitoring" (and professional support via) "feedback". Full of checks and balances and full of initiatives to include all stakeholders. A complex, accountable organisation like OFSTED cannot function effectively unless it works WITH all stakeholders. 😀PS: I have often shed a quiet tear for Ruth Perry: a single word cheated us out of a competent and committed head teacher!!😢

InTheUpsideDownToday · 05/05/2024 14:06

Ilovechocolatelimesandsherbertlemons · 05/05/2024 13:37

Unfortunately because schools did not have to take notice, the advisory services were not always very effective. You are assuming that all schools are well led and managed, and the children are safe and learning well. Sadly this is not actually the case.

It seems that there are also no official statistics on the number of children who died or who were severely injured whilst at nursery.

This awful tragedy happens more often than you would imagine (at least 7 deaths of children between 2011 and 2022) going by newspaper articles 😞

We very much need inspections. How else can numbers on the role or inadequate first aid/ childcare training/ equipment be checked?

PorridgeEater · 05/05/2024 14:48

And local advisers might be able to develop a more supportive working relationship, hence less disruption to schools and less likelihood of situation described by op.

Oldie2 · 06/05/2024 10:31

I don't think you should worry about this. I suspect they are planning for the worst imaginable case scenario, & don't want to risk a combo of having multiple staff off sick, plus the Ofsted inspector, which would be a big ask to manage, & might conceivably push them over their usual staff back up contingency. They are working on a zero risk policy vs staff child number compliance & having to drop you in it at the last moment. I would suggest they are putting the needs of your child before wanting to show off how good they are with her when she is there. Speaking from experience, Ofsted is very stressful. After having to move house unexpectedly, I found myself temporarily teaching in a school 30 miles away, a distance which is not ideal. It was the second term of my first teaching job & my car broke down on the morning of my inspection. I was going to be late for the second lesson stream 2 very well behaved class that had been arranged for my inpection, so instead, I had my naughty afternoon set 3 for her to watch me struggle with. I had just had a new pupil join this class the week before. To my suprise that day there were two of her sitting there. Apart from not knowing who was who, the extra guest was refusing to go on to her correct lesson because she/they didn't know what it was, which might possibly have been the case. I didn't know either, so I got the inspector to call for assistance, rather than leave the class unattended, since they were all in a lively mode after this prank. The lesson learned, is the importance of checking the school record for every new pupil as soon as they appear, & paying close attention to their schedule if they are twins with a known record of attendance issues, plus how to tell them apart.

InTheUpsideDownToday · 06/05/2024 12:45

Oldie2 · 06/05/2024 10:31

I don't think you should worry about this. I suspect they are planning for the worst imaginable case scenario, & don't want to risk a combo of having multiple staff off sick, plus the Ofsted inspector, which would be a big ask to manage, & might conceivably push them over their usual staff back up contingency. They are working on a zero risk policy vs staff child number compliance & having to drop you in it at the last moment. I would suggest they are putting the needs of your child before wanting to show off how good they are with her when she is there. Speaking from experience, Ofsted is very stressful. After having to move house unexpectedly, I found myself temporarily teaching in a school 30 miles away, a distance which is not ideal. It was the second term of my first teaching job & my car broke down on the morning of my inspection. I was going to be late for the second lesson stream 2 very well behaved class that had been arranged for my inpection, so instead, I had my naughty afternoon set 3 for her to watch me struggle with. I had just had a new pupil join this class the week before. To my suprise that day there were two of her sitting there. Apart from not knowing who was who, the extra guest was refusing to go on to her correct lesson because she/they didn't know what it was, which might possibly have been the case. I didn't know either, so I got the inspector to call for assistance, rather than leave the class unattended, since they were all in a lively mode after this prank. The lesson learned, is the importance of checking the school record for every new pupil as soon as they appear, & paying close attention to their schedule if they are twins with a known record of attendance issues, plus how to tell them apart.

Then perhaps the nursery should reduce their staff/child ratio so they can comfortably cope if there ever is such an emergency. This means not having as many places, not just asking them not to be sent in when there is an OFSTED.

What some nurseries seem to do is cram in as many babies/ children as possible so the poor underpaid minimum wage staff are left to cope regardless, perhaps for weeks on end. There have been several former nursery assistants on this thread stating this is the case.

Oldie2 · 06/05/2024 23:32

Maybe some people here need to calm down a bit. Ofsted inspections happen rarely, & the vulnerable child, who could well get unnecessarily stressed out by the situation, is only missing a day, with plenty of notice given. I agree, however, with the suggestion that the request for the child to be absent should be recorded for Ofsted to inspect & comment on.

InTheUpsideDownToday · 07/05/2024 08:35

Oldie2 · 06/05/2024 23:32

Maybe some people here need to calm down a bit. Ofsted inspections happen rarely, & the vulnerable child, who could well get unnecessarily stressed out by the situation, is only missing a day, with plenty of notice given. I agree, however, with the suggestion that the request for the child to be absent should be recorded for Ofsted to inspect & comment on.

Except there wasn't plenty of notice given in OPs case. It was the evening before!
In many cases the caregiver would have to take a day off work which may not be doable in many cases without going off on sick leave.

jannier · 07/05/2024 15:44

Oldie2 · 06/05/2024 10:31

I don't think you should worry about this. I suspect they are planning for the worst imaginable case scenario, & don't want to risk a combo of having multiple staff off sick, plus the Ofsted inspector, which would be a big ask to manage, & might conceivably push them over their usual staff back up contingency. They are working on a zero risk policy vs staff child number compliance & having to drop you in it at the last moment. I would suggest they are putting the needs of your child before wanting to show off how good they are with her when she is there. Speaking from experience, Ofsted is very stressful. After having to move house unexpectedly, I found myself temporarily teaching in a school 30 miles away, a distance which is not ideal. It was the second term of my first teaching job & my car broke down on the morning of my inspection. I was going to be late for the second lesson stream 2 very well behaved class that had been arranged for my inpection, so instead, I had my naughty afternoon set 3 for her to watch me struggle with. I had just had a new pupil join this class the week before. To my suprise that day there were two of her sitting there. Apart from not knowing who was who, the extra guest was refusing to go on to her correct lesson because she/they didn't know what it was, which might possibly have been the case. I didn't know either, so I got the inspector to call for assistance, rather than leave the class unattended, since they were all in a lively mode after this prank. The lesson learned, is the importance of checking the school record for every new pupil as soon as they appear, & paying close attention to their schedule if they are twins with a known record of attendance issues, plus how to tell them apart.

But that is exactly when you need to show you can cope not just the good days. Hiding a Sen child in case there is an issue is not on. Days when staff are off, short etc are all part of the managerial requirements there should be back up plans and behavioural management in place. They do not expect little perfect children but staff to be able to have the skills with whatever happens on any day.

jannier · 07/05/2024 15:48

Oldie2 · 06/05/2024 23:32

Maybe some people here need to calm down a bit. Ofsted inspections happen rarely, & the vulnerable child, who could well get unnecessarily stressed out by the situation, is only missing a day, with plenty of notice given. I agree, however, with the suggestion that the request for the child to be absent should be recorded for Ofsted to inspect & comment on.

So is it also acceptable to hide any troublesome child and only have the easiest little stars in? I'm the past schools have asked me to make displays and only sent the best artists out to work on them so they look good for Ofsted....the whole school operating as it does on any day should be inspected not polished up and pretence....the same school only puts soap in the toilets for Ofsted as the children waste it and make a mess.

PeonyBlushSuede · 07/05/2024 15:55

Octavia64 · 01/05/2024 09:05

Ofsted can destroy people's careers.

In the days when they gave notice to schools asking children with Sen to stay at home or sending them out on trips was a commonly done strategy,

I'm not going to say it is morally right but many schools worry about the whole school being rated inadequate if a child has a meltdown in front of an inspector.

These days it's unusual to do this (largely because it's so easily discovered) but nearly all schools will take some actions to present the best of the school/nursery to ofsted.
If trainees are in then they will be asked to observe the lesson while their mentor teaches etc etc. all courses, leave will be cancelled and all the senior leadership team will be onsite and working hard to keep behaviour as good as possible.

What they are doing isn't really ok. But ofsted are widely feared and people can and do lose their jobs over inspections.

I would keep my child at home to make their life easier.

I remember the trips on ofsted days when I was at secondary school.

The children who may have caused issues for the visit were taken to Alton towers for the day. Yet a long planned 6th form educational trip was cancelled due to needing the staff in

It's been going on for a long time. Doesn't make it right, but it happens at school too

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